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Forums - General - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Kasz216 said:

So... people with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are bigots.  You're calling people with a mental disorder caused on by stress bigoted... I think you should look in the mirror on this one in who is acting bigoted.

Example, if a Mcdonalds employee went to a small neighberhood and shot up a bunch of people in it wearing his uniform.  Chances are, that if people who lived through that saw a Mcdonalds they would infact be caused lots of stress and other issues.

Does that make those people bigots?  Because they're "Equating all McDonalds employees as murders!"

I'm going to say... no.  Because they aren't equating all Mc Donalds employees as murders, looking at a Mcdonalds triggers such a reaction.

Now, McDonalds wants to build a McDonalds in this neighberhood and the land they could get is withing view of a place where said victims gather... others, who don't want these victims to go through more generously donate land a few blocks away.

Mc Donalds clearly has the right to still build there and in turn lend to agitating those people... but should they?

Why am I a bigot?

And what makes you think those people have PTSD? And why should that matter in any case?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

So... people with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder are bigots.  You're calling people with a mental disorder caused on by stress bigoted... I think you should look in the mirror on this one in who is acting bigoted.

Example, if a Mcdonalds employee went to a small neighberhood and shot up a bunch of people in it wearing his uniform.  Chances are, that if people who lived through that saw a Mcdonalds they would infact be caused lots of stress and other issues.

Does that make those people bigots?  Because they're "Equating all McDonalds employees as murders!"

I'm going to say... no.  Because they aren't equating all Mc Donalds employees as murders, looking at a Mcdonalds triggers such a reaction.

Now, McDonalds wants to build a McDonalds in this neighberhood and the land they could get is withing view of a place where said victims gather... others, who don't want these victims to go through more generously donate land a few blocks away.

Mc Donalds clearly has the right to still build there and in turn lend to agitating those people... but should they?

Why am I a bigot?

And what makes you think those people have PTSD? And why should that matter in any case?

You are acting like a bigot because you are calling people with PTSD bigots.

Because studies show that there are huge amounts of people with PTSD in that area due to the attacks?  I believe the Figure is like... a 15% baseline for that area, 4-5% over the nation as a whole, and that's a place where people go to work through their issues about that place getting knocked over... so yeah.  Plentry of reason.

And... why should people building a mosque care that by building it there they are going to cause lots of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people?

I dunno, the same reason McDonalds wouldn't want to build in the place mentioend in the above example?

Or the same reason this chruch wouldn't want to burn a Qu'ran?  You know... the fact that it woul cause a lot of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people. 

Common human compassion and decency.


Are the protestors the people with PTSD?  Maybe, maybe not.  Either way, the people with PTSD will be harmed by the mosque being there... and said people are ignroing it.

They have every right to ignore it... but it's a douchebag thing to do.  Far worse then a one time burning of one holy book.



miz1q2w3e said:
TheRealMafoo said:

So all you who are against this, what do you think of these guys?

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20100906/twl-uk-afghanistan-protest-bd5ae06.html

That's wrong too, you're point?

besides, look at this:  "United States government in no way condones such acts of disrespect against the religion of Islam, and is deeply concerned about deliberate attempts to offend members of religious or ethnic groups." (from your link)

more people that think it's bad

Yes, because the location of that Islamic Centre was randomly chosen, and the desire to cause controversy played no part in the decision whatsoever.

How large is New York, and how large is a two block radius?

EDIT: I should point out that burning the Qu'ran is much worse than building that Islamic Centre, because while the latter is just attention whoring, the former is offending the beliefs of the hundreds of millions of peaceful Muslims, and ignoring the fact that the Bible and the Qu'ran both contain (in my opinion) equal parts genuine insight and ridiculous drivel.



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Kasz216 said:

Because studies show that there are huge amounts of people with PTSD in that area due to the attacks?  I believe the Figure is like... a 15% baseline for that area, 4-5% over the nation as a whole, and that's a place where people go to work through their issues about that place getting knocked over... so yeah.  Plentry of reason.

And... why should people building a mosque care that by building it there they are going to cause lots of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people?

I dunno, the same reason McDonalds wouldn't want to build in the place mentioend in the above example?

Or the same reason this chruch wouldn't want to burn a Qu'ran?  You know... the fact that it woul cause a lot of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people. 

Common human compassion and decency.

The difference is that the mosque isn't meant to cause anyone any unrest, while the Qu'ran burning is meant to do just that. And I'm willing to bet most people who don't want the mosque built hate muslims anyways. Plus during the terrorists attacks all those people you claim to have PTSD could have seen was planes crashing in the towers, not a giant Mohammed blimp doing that. So at most that could be scared of planes, not of muslims.

And the peopel who want to build the mosque shouldn't have to apologise for what the terrorists did, nor should they have to feel guilty about it and allow themselves to be pushed around by people driven by irrational fears.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Because studies show that there are huge amounts of people with PTSD in that area due to the attacks?  I believe the Figure is like... a 15% baseline for that area, 4-5% over the nation as a whole, and that's a place where people go to work through their issues about that place getting knocked over... so yeah.  Plentry of reason.

And... why should people building a mosque care that by building it there they are going to cause lots of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people?

I dunno, the same reason McDonalds wouldn't want to build in the place mentioend in the above example?

Or the same reason this chruch wouldn't want to burn a Qu'ran?  You know... the fact that it woul cause a lot of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people. 

Common human compassion and decency.

The difference is that the mosque isn't meant to cause anyone any unrest, while the Qu'ran burning is meant to do just that. And I'm willing to bet most people who don't want the mosque built hate muslims anyways. Plus during the terrorists attacks all those people you claim to have PTSD could have seen was planes crashing in the towers, not a giant Mohammed blimp doing that. So at most that could be scared of planes, not of muslims.

And the peopel who want to build the mosque shouldn't have to apologise for what the terrorists did, nor should they have to feel guilty about it and allow themselves to be pushed around by wackos driven by irrational fears.

That really isn't relevent.  The end result is the same... and futhermore they know the pain it will cause. 

I mean hell... slavery wasn't emeant to do anybody any harm.  The slavers actually thought they were doing black people a favor.  According to your reasoning, slavery was better then that, because at least they meant well and thought they were doing good.  Rather then intentionally causing harm as a side effect.

As for your arguement about PTSD... All it shows is your complete lack of knowledge about PTSD and further insensitive remarks towards people with a mental health issue.

It's not about "feeling guilty".  It's about doing something decent for people rather then knowingly antagonize them.  It's an identical situation to the above McDonalds thing I mentioned, which you've likely only ignored because you would feel differently about that and know I'm right.



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Kasz216 said:

That really isn't relevent.  The end result is the same.  I mean hell... slavery wasn't emeant to do anybody any harm.  The slavers actually thought they were doing black people a favor.

As for your arguement about PTSD... All it shows is your complete lack of knowledge about PTSD and further insensitive remarks towards people with a mental health issue.

I know what PTSD is. I also know that it's not something you should let ruin your life. You get over it, not let the disorder control you! What are they gonna do? Be scared of muslims for their whole lives? And in the end a person's mental health issue is that person's problem.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

That really isn't relevent.  The end result is the same.  I mean hell... slavery wasn't emeant to do anybody any harm.  The slavers actually thought they were doing black people a favor.

As for your arguement about PTSD... All it shows is your complete lack of knowledge about PTSD and further insensitive remarks towards people with a mental health issue.

I know what PTSD is. I also know that it's not something you should let ruin your life. You get over it, not let the disorder control you! What are they gonna do? Be scared of muslims for their whole lives? And in the end a person's mental health issue is that person's problem.

You might know what it is... but it sure seems like you don't know anything about it.

For example, 5% of Childen in Ohklahoma city who weren't directly exposed to the bombing and only heard about it second hand from their parents and others developed PTSD. 

As for it being someones own problem... sure it is. 

Why that means people shouldn't be upset when others knowingly and willingly exacerbate that problem... I don't get... espeically when giving equal as good options with no negative effects.

All it shows is a direct lack of human compassion and decency.  I certaintly hope you don't ever argue that someone should go slightly out of their way to be more compassionate to others when it will have no negative effects to them.



I'm fine with the mosque being built where it is.  They're within zoning regulations and their protected by the constitution.

This however, is just an inflammatory act of bigotry. 



Kenology said:

I'm fine with the mosque being built where it is.  They're within zoning regulations and their protected by the constitution.

This however, is just an inflammatory act of bigotry. 


But it's within zoning regulations and protected by the constituion.

Things being legal and within the rights of the consitution don't make them ok or good.  Both actions and groups are insensitive jerks unwilling to put a little human kindness infront of their own wishes and ambitions.



Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Because studies show that there are huge amounts of people with PTSD in that area due to the attacks?  I believe the Figure is like... a 15% baseline for that area, 4-5% over the nation as a whole, and that's a place where people go to work through their issues about that place getting knocked over... so yeah.  Plentry of reason.

And... why should people building a mosque care that by building it there they are going to cause lots of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people?

I dunno, the same reason McDonalds wouldn't want to build in the place mentioend in the above example?

Or the same reason this chruch wouldn't want to burn a Qu'ran?  You know... the fact that it woul cause a lot of undue unrest, trouble and emotional pain to people. 

Common human compassion and decency.

The difference is that the mosque isn't meant to cause anyone any unrest, while the Qu'ran burning is meant to do just that. And I'm willing to bet most people who don't want the mosque built hate muslims anyways. Plus during the terrorists attacks all those people you claim to have PTSD could have seen was planes crashing in the towers, not a giant Mohammed blimp doing that. So at most that could be scared of planes, not of muslims.

And the peopel who want to build the mosque shouldn't have to apologise for what the terrorists did, nor should they have to feel guilty about it and allow themselves to be pushed around by wackos driven by irrational fears.

That really isn't relevent.  The end result is the same... and futhermore they know the pain it will cause. 

I mean hell... slavery wasn't emeant to do anybody any harm.  The slavers actually thought they were doing black people a favor.  According to your reasoning, slavery was better then that, because at least they meant well and thought they were doing good.  Rather then intentionally causing harm as a side effect.

As for your arguement about PTSD... All it shows is your complete lack of knowledge about PTSD and further insensitive remarks towards people with a mental health issue.

It's not about "feeling guilty".  It's about doing something decent for people rather then knowingly antagonize them.  It's an identical situation to the above McDonalds thing I mentioned, which you've likely only ignored because you would feel differently about that and know I'm right.

No, you're not right. Because your being right isn't the only one. You've decided to be the sensitive man that defends the poor souls with PTSD. Unfortunately your whole point is somehow flawed. Considering how many bombings there were around the world led by christian extremists, some that took place in the US, then we should assume that people should not like to live next to a church , right?

well, i assume you understand where i'm going with this. I'll write it anyway.

It is only pure phobia of Islam that i see with your reasoning.What some group does should and cannot be tied to any specific religion, mainly because of the absurdity that awaits us later. People in Belfast have been blown to smithereens by both catholics and protestants more than once, but do you see anyone making a fuss of living next to a newly built church in Ireland? And i assure you that there were many  people with PTSD .

Unfortunately if you had your way with "protecting" people with the syndrome you only actually make it worse by fueling their fears and enforce their feeling of being entitled to their "genuine" fear. You know that facing fear is the only way to go forward. And it's been almost 9 years since the attack. About time to take a few steps forward. 



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