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Forums - Sales - Why does Sony fail at making another mega franchise?

gekkokamen said:

Allow me to include this list I made for another thread...

 

TOP SELLING PS3 EXCLUSIVES

 

1- Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3)  First MGS this gen- 2.5 year old game. It was bundled for several months.  @ around 5 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

2- Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) First GT of this gen, although not full-fledged numbered title (sort of like Halo ODST if you will) @ around 5 million ww -counting PSN sales (data from PD themselves)- Greatest Hit title.

3- Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had on release date. It was officially bundled in Europe for a good while. @around 3.75 millon ww. Greatest Hit title.

4-LittleBigPlanet (PS3) New franchise more focused on family/young gamers- @ around 3.7 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

5- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3) Young franchise but still Best overall game this generation according to critical acclaim, awards, etc (hint : it is). @ around 3.6 million ww.

6- MotorStorm (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had early after debut. It was officially bundled until discontinued (the bundle and SKU) in mid 2008. @ around 3.55 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

7- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3) New franchise and arguably PS3's first killer exclusive. Released in late 2007.  Right now it sits @ around 3. 3 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

8- God of War III (PS3) First GOW of this gen, released in March this year- @ around 3 million ww.

9- Killzone 2 (PS3) First game of a franchise that had an unimpressive start in PS2. It also did unimpressive numbers, although still good enough to build upon it and its developing fanbase. @ 2.4 million ww. Also a Greatest Hit title.

10- Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3) The first game of the franchise also released in late 2007 @ around 2 million now.

 

The only game there that is not a Sony IP is MGS4.  Half of Sony top-selling IPs are NEW franchises, and Killzone even if it's not "new", I'd say it's real debut was Killzone 2. I think those are very good numbers for new franchises and Sony has PLENTY to build on for the remainder of this generation and the next, including some really exciting franchises that haven't cracked 2 million but certainly will, eventually (and most likely their sequels) like Infamous and Heavy Rain.





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gekkokamen said:
Michael-5 said:
EncodedNybble said:

Yeah terminology is all sorts of confusing.

 

First party  intellectual property = a piece of IP that is owned by the manufacturer of the consoles.  Halo, Resistance, Mario, etc.

Third part IP = piece of IP that is not owned by the manufacturer of the consoles but appear on it.

First party devs = the company is owned wholly by the console manufacturer.  Naughty Dog, Rare, Sony Santa Monica, etc.

Third part devs = everyone else.

 

2nd party devs/2nd party IP is a made up and loose term basically meaning an IP/dev group which is wholly independent but only makes/is made for a particular console.  It would be as if the Tekken series was made only for Sony products, it would be a "2nd party" IP though there is no real binding agreement, so it could become 3rd party at any point.  This is why 2nd party terminology is stupid.

Ok.

anyway, why is this relevant for mega-franchises? For PS3, Sony will have only GT5, and I blaime the fact that they relied too heavily on 3rd party exclusives (or 2nd party??). Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil are 3 of the biggest franchises that went multi-platform, and Dragon Quest ditched Sony all together


Sony currently has many potential "mega-franchises" in the making. Uncharted series, Little Big Planet, Resistance, Killzone to name a few. Super mega franchise status is not always achieved overnight. Resident Evil, Final Fantasy...those franchises started with "hit titles" nothing to indicate they would become as big as they are. GTA started in all but complete obscurity.

God of War is pretty much a mega franchise, and part 3 will sell over 5 million once it joins the Greatest Hits line.

Oh, and all those franchises you mentioned above where Multiplatform before the PS3 even existed, actually. Final Fantasy 7 was on PC in 1998 and so was Final Fantasy XI released on both PC and X360. Grand Theft Auto 3 was on PC, and Vice City and San Andreas were released on the original Xbox. Resident Evil saw releases even on the Nintendo 64! And the Dreamcast got Code Veronica before the PS2 even existed. Not to mention all the Resident Evil games on Nintendo Gamecube. Dragon Quest's never been big in the west so I don't know why mention it, Square has been mainly devoted to portables this generation, it's not that they "ditched" the PS3, it's more like they ditched high-budget games altogether, except for Final Fantasy.

Before I say my opinion, I am only talking about game sales. Resistance, Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, etc, they are all great games, worthy of a 9/10 rating or higher. However we are talking about weather or not the franchise is "mega" and talking on this thread for a while, most people seem to think 10 million is "mega." This is all I intend to debate, quantity, not quality.

I disagree, but respectfully. I really doubt Uncharted, Resistance, LBP, or Killzone will become mega franchises. Killzone 2 only sold a little above 2 million, Resistance 1 sold well because it was one of the only good games at launch, and Resistance 2 sales are basically half Resistance 1 sales. If anything that shows this franchise may be forgotten, or just linger about in the future (like Twisted Metal). Uncharted 3 has the potential to sell 6 million units and be on Gears of War level saleswise, to some thats Mega franchise enough. LBP I think has potential to go above 5 million, but not 10 million, so not mega like Halo or Mario.

God of War 3 hasn't even broken 3 million sales, and although I agree it can make 4 million, I don't think it will do much better. GoW 1 sold 3.72 million i beleive, this is not a "mega" franchise, but it is big.

As for Final Fantasy not being Sony exclusive, Sony still had Final Fantasy as a console exclusive. FFVII, and FFVIII were release on the PC up to a year later then on the console. GTA on PC and X-Box were also timed releases, and I think X-Box only got Vice City as a bundle with San Andreas, so pretty late after the PS2 installment.

Resident Evil was more PS1 exclusive, during the PS2 era they kind of switched to Nintendo. On the PS1 all RE titles were. During the PS1 era only Resident Evil 2 was released on the N64, and it was released on the N64 a solid 21 months after the PS1 edition.

Dragon Quest is still massive in Japan, and it's still an acceptable example.

Only "mega" franchise Sony has is GT, but who cares. All MS has is Halo, and debatably Gears of War. A game doesn't have to sell well to be good, I mean Golden Sun on GBA is among my favorite RPG's, and so is Chrono Trigger on the SNES



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CGI-Quality said:
Michael-5 said:
EncodedNybble said:

Yeah terminology is all sorts of confusing.

 

First party  intellectual property = a piece of IP that is owned by the manufacturer of the consoles.  Halo, Resistance, Mario, etc.

Third part IP = piece of IP that is not owned by the manufacturer of the consoles but appear on it.

First party devs = the company is owned wholly by the console manufacturer.  Naughty Dog, Rare, Sony Santa Monica, etc.

Third part devs = everyone else.

 

2nd party devs/2nd party IP is a made up and loose term basically meaning an IP/dev group which is wholly independent but only makes/is made for a particular console.  It would be as if the Tekken series was made only for Sony products, it would be a "2nd party" IP though there is no real binding agreement, so it could become 3rd party at any point.  This is why 2nd party terminology is stupid.

Ok.

anyway, why is this relevant for mega-franchises? For PS3, Sony will have only GT5, and I blaime the fact that they relied too heavily on 3rd party exclusives (or 2nd party??). Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil are 3 of the biggest franchises that went multi-platform, and Dragon Quest ditched Sony all together.

For Sony, the only mega franchise they have is GT, sure, and it's all they've needed. They have plenty of in-house titles that don't sell 5 million (plus), enough 3rd party support anyway, and enough in-house devs that are highly skilled and talented folks that will continue to get the job done. End of the day, that's what true gamers care about - games, not if they sell 10 million copies, and/or become "mega franchises".

I 100% agree, and I really have to get into Heavy Rain. lol, it's the next PS3 game on my list.



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gekkokamen said:

Allow me to include this list I made for another thread...

 

TOP SELLING PS3 EXCLUSIVES

 

1- Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3)  First MGS this gen- 2.5 year old game. It was bundled for several months.  @ around 5 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

2- Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) First GT of this gen, although not full-fledged numbered title (sort of like Halo ODST if you will) @ around 5 million ww -counting PSN sales (data from PD themselves)- Greatest Hit title.

3- Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had on release date. It was officially bundled in Europe for a good while. @around 3.75 millon ww. Greatest Hit title.

4-LittleBigPlanet (PS3) New franchise more focused on family/young gamers- @ around 3.7 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

5- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3) Young franchise but still Best overall game this generation according to critical acclaim, awards, etc (hint : it is). @ around 3.6 million ww.

6- MotorStorm (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had early after debut. It was officially bundled until discontinued (the bundle and SKU) in mid 2008. @ around 3.55 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

7- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3) New franchise and arguably PS3's first killer exclusive. Released in late 2007.  Right now it sits @ around 3. 3 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

8- God of War III (PS3) First GOW of this gen, released in March this year- @ around 3 million ww.

9- Killzone 2 (PS3) First game of a franchise that had an unimpressive start in PS2. It also did unimpressive numbers, although still good enough to build upon it and its developing fanbase. @ 2.4 million ww. Also a Greatest Hit title.

10- Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3) The first game of the franchise also released in late 2007 @ around 2 million now.

 

The only game there that is not a Sony IP is MGS4.  Half of Sony IPs are NEW franchises, and Killzone even if it's not "new", I'd say it's real debut was Killzone 2. I think those are very good numbers for new franchises and Sony has PLENTY to build on for the remainder of this generation and the next, including some really exciting franchises that haven't cracked 2 million but certainly will, eventually (and most likely their sequels) like Infamous and Heavy Rain.

It's funny, games 2-8 all sold between 3-4 million, most of them sold around the middle. I think all Sony made PS3 exclusives will only dream about getting to this point (except GT5). I think this whole "mega" franchise thing is silly. Is Halo the best FPS? To many yes, but not to everyone. Is GT5 going to be the best racing sim? To many yes, but I will still prefer Forza (I have all Forza's and GT's to back up my beleif, but thats another topic).

I disagree on you with these franchises having the foundation to become "mega" because PS3 is already half-way through it's life. These franchises have had plenty of time to sell 10 million, but why haven't they? It's because PS3's audience is moe diverse then 360's audience. I mean PS3's best selling region is EMEAA and every country there is different.

I think the only way Sony can make a mega franchise, is if they focus one genre per game. So Halo does well because it's basically the only FPS Microsoft produces. GT5 will also sell well because it's the only racinggame Sony produces. When Sony produces 3 different shooters, people have to pick which one they want. Sony has multiple games competing for the same audience.

I think some of the new franchises Sony made could become "mega", or at least 5 million plus frnahcises...on the PS4. PS3 is kind of stuck in 3-4 million limbo. Too many shooters competing against each other. LBP, GoW, and GT are the only stand alones, but Action has never been a huge platform on it's own, and platformers are seriously dominated by Nintendo (I don't care what you say, nothing is above Donkey Kong Country). This is why Sony only has GT as a "mega" franchise.

Does it matter? No.



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Michael-5 said:
gekkokamen said:

Allow me to include this list I made for another thread...

 

TOP SELLING PS3 EXCLUSIVES

 

1- Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3)  First MGS this gen- 2.5 year old game. It was bundled for several months.  @ around 5 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

2- Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) First GT of this gen, although not full-fledged numbered title (sort of like Halo ODST if you will) @ around 5 million ww -counting PSN sales (data from PD themselves)- Greatest Hit title.

3- Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had on release date. It was officially bundled in Europe for a good while. @around 3.75 millon ww. Greatest Hit title.

4-LittleBigPlanet (PS3) New franchise more focused on family/young gamers- @ around 3.7 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

5- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3) Young franchise but still Best overall game this generation according to critical acclaim, awards, etc (hint : it is). @ around 3.6 million ww.

6- MotorStorm (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had early after debut. It was officially bundled until discontinued (the bundle and SKU) in mid 2008. @ around 3.55 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

7- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3) New franchise and arguably PS3's first killer exclusive. Released in late 2007.  Right now it sits @ around 3. 3 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

8- God of War III (PS3) First GOW of this gen, released in March this year- @ around 3 million ww.

9- Killzone 2 (PS3) First game of a franchise that had an unimpressive start in PS2. It also did unimpressive numbers, although still good enough to build upon it and its developing fanbase. @ 2.4 million ww. Also a Greatest Hit title.

10- Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3) The first game of the franchise also released in late 2007 @ around 2 million now.

 

The only game there that is not a Sony IP is MGS4.  Half of Sony IPs are NEW franchises, and Killzone even if it's not "new", I'd say it's real debut was Killzone 2. I think those are very good numbers for new franchises and Sony has PLENTY to build on for the remainder of this generation and the next, including some really exciting franchises that haven't cracked 2 million but certainly will, eventually (and most likely their sequels) like Infamous and Heavy Rain.

It's funny, games 2-8 all sold between 3-4 million, most of them sold around the middle. I think all Sony made PS3 exclusives will only dream about getting to this point (except GT5). I think this whole "mega" franchise thing is silly. Is Halo the best FPS? To many yes, but not to everyone. Is GT5 going to be the best racing sim? To many yes, but I will still prefer Forza (I have all Forza's and GT's to back up my beleif, but thats another topic).

I disagree on you with these franchises having the foundation to become "mega" because PS3 is already half-way through it's life. These franchises have had plenty of time to sell 10 million, but why haven't they? It's because PS3's audience is moe diverse then 360's audience. I mean PS3's best selling region is EMEAA and every country there is different.

I think the only way Sony can make a mega franchise, is if they focus one genre per game. So Halo does well because it's basically the only FPS Microsoft produces. GT5 will also sell well because it's the only racinggame Sony produces. When Sony produces 3 different shooters, people have to pick which one they want. Sony has multiple games competing for the same audience.

I think some of the new franchises Sony made could become "mega", or at least 5 million plus frnahcises...on the PS4. PS3 is kind of stuck in 3-4 million limbo. Too many shooters competing against each other. LBP, GoW, and GT are the only stand alones, but Action has never been a huge platform on it's own, and platformers are seriously dominated by Nintendo (I don't care what you say, nothing is above Donkey Kong Country). This is why Sony only has GT as a "mega" franchise.

Does it matter? No.

Yeah, poor Sony and poor us gamers.



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Michael-5 said:
gekkokamen said:

Allow me to include this list I made for another thread...

 

TOP SELLING PS3 EXCLUSIVES

 

1- Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3)  First MGS this gen- 2.5 year old game. It was bundled for several months.  @ around 5 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

2- Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) First GT of this gen, although not full-fledged numbered title (sort of like Halo ODST if you will) @ around 5 million ww -counting PSN sales (data from PD themselves)- Greatest Hit title.

3- Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had on release date. It was officially bundled in Europe for a good while. @around 3.75 millon ww. Greatest Hit title.

4-LittleBigPlanet (PS3) New franchise more focused on family/young gamers- @ around 3.7 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

5- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3) Young franchise but still Best overall game this generation according to critical acclaim, awards, etc (hint : it is). @ around 3.6 million ww.

6- MotorStorm (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had early after debut. It was officially bundled until discontinued (the bundle and SKU) in mid 2008. @ around 3.55 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

7- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3) New franchise and arguably PS3's first killer exclusive. Released in late 2007.  Right now it sits @ around 3. 3 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

8- God of War III (PS3) First GOW of this gen, released in March this year- @ around 3 million ww.

9- Killzone 2 (PS3) First game of a franchise that had an unimpressive start in PS2. It also did unimpressive numbers, although still good enough to build upon it and its developing fanbase. @ 2.4 million ww. Also a Greatest Hit title.

10- Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3) The first game of the franchise also released in late 2007 @ around 2 million now.

 

The only game there that is not a Sony IP is MGS4.  Half of Sony IPs are NEW franchises, and Killzone even if it's not "new", I'd say it's real debut was Killzone 2. I think those are very good numbers for new franchises and Sony has PLENTY to build on for the remainder of this generation and the next, including some really exciting franchises that haven't cracked 2 million but certainly will, eventually (and most likely their sequels) like Infamous and Heavy Rain.

It's funny, games 2-8 all sold between 3-4 million, most of them sold around the middle. I think all Sony made PS3 exclusives will only dream about getting to this point (except GT5). I think this whole "mega" franchise thing is silly. Is Halo the best FPS? To many yes, but not to everyone. Is GT5 going to be the best racing sim? To many yes, but I will still prefer Forza (I have all Forza's and GT's to back up my beleif, but thats another topic).

I disagree on you with these franchises having the foundation to become "mega" because PS3 is already half-way through it's life. These franchises have had plenty of time to sell 10 million, but why haven't they? It's because PS3's audience is moe diverse then 360's audience. I mean PS3's best selling region is EMEAA and every country there is different.

I think the only way Sony can make a mega franchise, is if they focus one genre per game. So Halo does well because it's basically the only FPS Microsoft produces. GT5 will also sell well because it's the only racinggame Sony produces. When Sony produces 3 different shooters, people have to pick which one they want. Sony has multiple games competing for the same audience.

I think some of the new franchises Sony made could become "mega", or at least 5 million plus frnahcises...on the PS4. PS3 is kind of stuck in 3-4 million limbo. Too many shooters competing against each other. LBP, GoW, and GT are the only stand alones, but Action has never been a huge platform on it's own, and platformers are seriously dominated by Nintendo (I don't care what you say, nothing is above Donkey Kong Country). This is why Sony only has GT as a "mega" franchise.

Does it matter? No.


never thought i would ever ever EVER say this but........................ well said dude, well said lol



 The point should be do Sony or its customers  really need or want  another  Halo / GT  type  first party franchise my argument would be yes and no , as things sit the GT brand brings some surety to the company in terms of financial risk V reward this coming from assured success so having another successful brand helps in that regard along with profits for one Sony game helps all Sony games ,so Sony should see financial benefit,the no comes in if the new mega franchise effects other games made by Sony so it  becomes like take two and has an over dependence on two few titles ,something i don't feel would happen at Sony , an impact on other titles yes  a major one  no. It is more from the customers side that i feel the impact could be negative in would you rather another super franchise or 3-5 medium to large ones that do the same numbers ? .

still in that i feel mega franchises are about being the right game at the right time as much as anything else the chances of another huge franchise is in the lap of the gods and is above being engineered by either Sony or MS



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

mjk45 said:

 The point should be do Sony or its customers  really need or want  another  Halo / GT  type  first party franchise my argument would be yes and no , as things sit the GT brand brings some surety to the company in terms of financial risk V reward this coming from assured success so having another successful brand helps in that regard along with profits for one Sony game helps all Sony games ,so Sony should see financial benefit,the no comes in if the new mega franchise effects other games made by Sony so it  becomes like take two and has an over dependence on two few titles ,something i don't feel would happen at Sony , an impact on other titles yes  a major one  no. It is more from the customers side that i feel the impact could be negative in would you rather another super franchise or 3-5 medium to large ones that do the same numbers ? .

still in that i feel mega franchises are about being the right game at the right time as much as anything else the chances of another huge franchise is in the lap of the gods and is above being engineered by either Sony or MS

Personally, I only think this "mega" franchise deal only hurt Sony pre GT5. Every console needs at least one blockbuster sellout. I'm talking about quantity, not quality, and it hurt Sony not having a "mega" title because they lacked that one specific definitive PS3 experience. Yes Killzone, Uncharted, Resistance, God of War, LBP, etc were all great franchises, but they are 5 franchises all competing for the star spotlight.

What Microsoft did was they just gave center show to Halo, and although Gears tried to bud in, it only got supporting role (my guess due to slightly unbalanced multiplayer, and a little glitchy gameplay, in a game where the debut title needed moe cinematics to explain the story, PS I love Gears so don't say I'm a hater).

What Sony did was they changed spotlights depending on the act.

Speaking in terms of appearance, Sony lacked that main trademark. MS had Halo, Nintendo had Mario, Sony had a mixed bag. Now that GT5 is comming it will get it's "mega" franchise, and sales will prosper (a bit) in 2011 because of it. If only GT5 came out in 2007 or so, sales on PS3 would have been significantly higher, not just because of the games boost, but becaue of the consoles image boost.



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CGI-Quality said:
Michael-5 said:
mjk45 said:

 The point should be do Sony or its customers  really need or want  another  Halo / GT  type  first party franchise my argument would be yes and no , as things sit the GT brand brings some surety to the company in terms of financial risk V reward this coming from assured success so having another successful brand helps in that regard along with profits for one Sony game helps all Sony games ,so Sony should see financial benefit,the no comes in if the new mega franchise effects other games made by Sony so it  becomes like take two and has an over dependence on two few titles ,something i don't feel would happen at Sony , an impact on other titles yes  a major one  no. It is more from the customers side that i feel the impact could be negative in would you rather another super franchise or 3-5 medium to large ones that do the same numbers ? .

still in that i feel mega franchises are about being the right game at the right time as much as anything else the chances of another huge franchise is in the lap of the gods and is above being engineered by either Sony or MS

Personally, I only think this "mega" franchise deal only hurt Sony pre GT5. Every console needs at least one blockbuster sellout. I'm talking about quantity, not quality, and it hurt Sony not having a "mega" title because they lacked that one specific definitive PS3 experience. Yes Killzone, Uncharted, Resistance, God of War, LBP, etc were all great franchises, but they are 5 franchises all competing for the star spotlight.

What Microsoft did was they just gave center show to Halo, and although Gears tried to bud in, it only got supporting role (my guess due to slightly unbalanced multiplayer, and a little glitchy gameplay, in a game where the debut title needed moe cinematics to explain the story, PS I love Gears so don't say I'm a hater).

What Sony did was they changed spotlights depending on the act.

Speaking in terms of appearance, Sony lacked that main trademark. MS had Halo, Nintendo had Mario, Sony had a mixed bag. Now that GT5 is comming it will get it's "mega" franchise, and sales will prosper (a bit) in 2011 because of it. If only GT5 came out in 2007 or so, sales on PS3 would have been significantly higher, not just because of the games boost, but becaue of the consoles image boost.

You still have yet to learn that a mega franchise isn't what kept Sony going all this time. It's always just been about qthe quantity of titles to play and the variety it brings. PS3 is no different and GT5 will be the icing on the cake, not the lacking, "mega-hit" after thought.

I think both are factors, and if GT5 was released earlier it could have only helped the console.

Both PS3 and 360 produce about the same number of quality titles, and both system rocks. :P



What is with all the hate? Don't read GamrReview Articles. Contact me to ADD games to the Database
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