So explain how Insomniac can be a 1st party developer (like you say), when they have a multi-console game in development? Also why do manufacturers like Nintendo and Microsoft also use the term 2nd party?

Insomniac isn't 1st party, they're 3rd party.  They can still work on a 1st party game though (like Resistance 3), it just means the game isn't 1st party developed.

Nintendo actually coined the term "2nd party" originally in the mid 1990s to help explain their relationship with RARE.  Basically meaning an exclusive external developer relationship (Nintendo hadn't bought into RARE at the time).

Microsoft doesn't use the term afaik.  In fact, anything they publish they refer to as 1st party, even IPs they don't own like Shenmue II or Gears of War.

CGI, seriously whats with all the negative connotation towards me? Wh are you trying to tarnish my image?

Anyway jarrod, that you for clearing that up. This debate was really stupid, but at least I know 2nd party is a term used by Nintendo and Sony. I'll accept Resistance being a 3rd party game, I hate when people classify Resistance as a 1st party exclusive, but Gears as 3rd party because Resistance is not a 1st party game.

So when is it appropriate to use the term second party? Is it an actual marketing term? Also what about Pokemon, Nintendo doesn't own Game Freak, but they are an exclusive external developer, so that means that they are second party.

Also technically, by Nintendo's definition of second party, Halo Reach is a second party title. Microsoft and Bungie agreed to make Halo, and Bungie exclusively only makes Halo games for the 360 (for now). Therefore Halo was developed by an exclusive external developer correct?

Halo 3 is 1st party I don't deny that, just technically (since CGI you claim 2nd party is not an actual type of developer), Halo: Reach is second party right?

I'm just using the facts presented and making a case, please don't insult me because I say differently then you CGI, be civil.

Insomniac isn't a 1st party developer. Oh I see now. Still I prefer to go with Nintendo's 2nd party definition.

I'm pretty sure Microsoft owns the IP for Alan Wake.

I'm not ignoring facts, see this is insulting man. You've made mistake too which I have corrrected and you have ignored. Your mean, and just trying to make me look bad.

Yeah terminology is all sorts of confusing.

First party  intellectual property = a piece of IP that is owned by the manufacturer of the consoles.  Halo, Resistance, Mario, etc.

Third part IP = piece of IP that is not owned by the manufacturer of the consoles but appear on it.

First party devs = the company is owned wholly by the console manufacturer.  Naughty Dog, Rare, Sony Santa Monica, etc.

Third part devs = everyone else.

2nd party devs/2nd party IP is a made up and loose term basically meaning an IP/dev group which is wholly independent but only makes/is made for a particular console.  It would be as if the Tekken series was made only for Sony products, it would be a "2nd party" IP though there is no real binding agreement, so it could become 3rd party at any point.  This is why 2nd party terminology is stupid.

They also had Crash : Bandicoot.

Ok.

anyway, why is this relevant for mega-franchises? For PS3, Sony will have only GT5, and I blaime the fact that they relied too heavily on 3rd party exclusives (or 2nd party??). Final Fantasy, Grand Theft Auto, Resident Evil are 3 of the biggest franchises that went multi-platform, and Dragon Quest ditched Sony all together.

Sony currently has many potential "mega-franchises" in the making. Uncharted series, Little Big Planet, Resistance, Killzone to name a few. Super mega franchise status is not always achieved overnight. Resident Evil, Final Fantasy...those franchises started with "hit titles" nothing to indicate they would become as big as they are. GTA started in all but complete obscurity.

God of War is pretty much a mega franchise, and part 3 will sell over 5 million once it joins the Greatest Hits line.

Oh, and all those franchises you mentioned above where Multiplatform before the PS3 even existed, actually. Final Fantasy 7 was on PC in 1998 and so was Final Fantasy XI released on both PC and X360. Grand Theft Auto 3 was on PC, and Vice City and San Andreas were released on the original Xbox. Resident Evil saw releases even on the Nintendo 64! And the Dreamcast got Code Veronica before the PS2 even existed. Not to mention all the Resident Evil games on Nintendo Gamecube. Dragon Quest's never been big in the west so I don't know why mention it, Square has been mainly devoted to portables this generation, it's not that they "ditched" the PS3, it's more like they ditched high-budget games altogether, except for Final Fantasy.

I said this some pages back....'nuff said.

Allow me to include this list I made for another thread...

TOP SELLING PS3 EXCLUSIVES

1- Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (PS3)  First MGS this gen- 2.5 year old game. It was bundled for several months.  @ around 5 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

2- Gran Turismo 5 Prologue (PS3) First GT of this gen, although not full-fledged numbered title (sort of like Halo ODST if you will) @ around 5 million ww -counting PSN sales (data from PD themselves)- Greatest Hit title.

3- Resistance: Fall of Man (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had on release date. It was officially bundled in Europe for a good while. @around 3.75 millon ww. Greatest Hit title.

4-LittleBigPlanet (PS3) New franchise more focused on family/young gamers- @ around 3.7 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

5- Uncharted 2: Among Thieves (PS3) Young franchise but still Best overall game this generation according to critical acclaim, awards, etc (hint : it is). @ around 3.6 million ww.

6- MotorStorm (PS3) First game of this new franchise that was one of the first show-pieces the PS3 had early after debut. It was officially bundled until discontinued (the bundle and SKU) in mid 2008. @ around 3.55 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

7- Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3) New franchise and arguably PS3's first killer exclusive. Released in late 2007.  Right now it sits @ around 3. 3 million ww. Greatest Hit title.

8- God of War III (PS3) First GOW of this gen, released in March this year- @ around 3 million ww.

9- Killzone 2 (PS3) First game of a franchise that had an unimpressive start in PS2. It also did unimpressive numbers, although still good enough to build upon it and its developing fanbase. @ 2.4 million ww. Also a Greatest Hit title.

10- Ratchet & Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3) The first game of the franchise also released in late 2007 @ around 2 million now.

The only game there that is not a Sony IP is MGS4.  Half of Sony IPs are NEW franchises, and Killzone even if it's not "new", I'd say it's real debut was Killzone 2. I think those are very good numbers for new franchises and Sony has PLENTY to build on for the remainder of this generation and the next, including some really exciting franchises that haven't cracked 2 million but certainly will, eventually (and most likely their sequels) like Infamous and Heavy Rain.