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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox 360 Is 'Nowhere Near' It's Limits! Says Peter Molyneux

BenVTrigger said:

wow the negativity in the thread is ridiculous 

he's obviously talking about  doing things outside the box and pushing things in a new way in a different context than OMGZ GUYZ THERE ARE HAXORZ 12 MILLIONZ POLYGONZ ON SCREENZ RIGHT NOW!

A system can be no where near its limit when being used in different ways than "best graphics eva"



surprising! i don't think so. but i've gotten use to it. agree with the last sentence, but it's not finished so here goes. different gameplay ideas can be added and the things we are currently being limited from doing in current games on the maarket can find there place on any home console! gameplay before graphic's.

the sad part is that gamers limit themselves by beign close minded. open your mind and see the possibilties insdtead of doubting every statment at evwery turn. dev. know better then we do it's there job!



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If Molyneux says it, it can't be true.



You do not have the right to never be offended.

LMAO Molyneaux is a joke really. He's worse than Pachter IMO.

360 is doing just fine, but to say its nowhere near its limits doesn't sound that accurate.



Badassbab said:
Jadedx said:
Hynad said:
Cueil said:

Isn't ignorance bliss... not a single developer has used the VMX units on the system and from what Corrinne Yu said there is a ton of untapped potential.  I'll see if I can't find the videos and link them

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/InsideXbox/Corrinne-Yu-Principal-Engine-Architect-Halo-Team-Microsoft-Part-One/

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/InsideXbox/Corrinne-Yu-Principal-Engine-Architect-for-Halo-Team-Microsoft-Part-Two/

It's more then a bit on the technical side but she talks about everything including the PS3 and the benefits of coders being  forced to work on the hardware and how that makes their games better on the 360

She actually said, and I quote: "In fact like there's a lot of games coming in, you know, that aren't doing parallelized spectorised pipelines on, you know, on the VMX."

This doesn't translate, at all, to "not a single developer has made use of the VMX". 

Like you said, isn't ignorance bliss...

His main point was that she basically said the 360 is too easy to dev for so nobody takes full advantage of it.Crytek, Firebird, and 343 are all gonna make 360 bleed!

Yeah but MS are kinda to blame for that forcing developers to use Direct X so as to be BC with the future Xbox. Look at PS3 first party games, they program to the metal and the results have been spectacular. Now the 360 is meant to be going another 5 years let's hope MS relax those restrictions as I doubt many gamers will be fussed about the new Xbox being BC.

Programming to the metal is good, but what happens when PS4 ditches Cell since it's dead tech anyways?  That's a lot of wasted effort, and I suspect the devs would never have even bothered learning Cell had Sony not been bankrolling them.  I'd say the productivity gain from abstraction layers outweighs the relatively minor graphical improvements of PS3 exclusives by a lot.

Nobody buys games because of graphics unless it is substantially better - of which there is nothing on both consoles and PCs.  That's why there's not going to be a new console anytime soon, rendering in 60FPS full HD with massive AA/AF isn't going to be a selling point cause graphics today aren't 4x noticably better than previous gen.  Most likely they will wait until GPGPU's become more integrated and flexible.



Killiana1a said:

Molyneux before he became Microsoft Game Studios Creative Director was known for hyperbole in hyping up features about his upcoming games that never came to fruition. Now that Molyneux is in a position of authority where he has to always paint a rosy picture, Molyneux is just piling the bullshit even higher.

Don't believe a word. He is speaking to investors and potential shareholders of Microsoft stock. Of course he is going to hype it up to the nth degree.

I trust Crytek because since Far Cry and on to Crysis, their games have been at the cutting edge of graphics capability. Crytek knows exactly what the limits are and how much they will have to downgrade Crysis 2 to get it running at a 40-60 FPS for the 360 and PS3 version.

BTW, don't blame Crytek for the subpar Far Cry 2. The makers of the Assassin's Creed series, Ubisoft Montreal, developed Far Cry 2, while Crytek has done Far Cry, Crysis, Crysis: Warhead, and Crysis 2.

Crytek is up there at the top in terms of development studios who take the due diligence and devotion to routinely put out gems of games.

On the one hand, yes, Molyneux has a reason to be pushing the positives of the Xbox360.  On the other hand, going by the dev from Crytek, he's essentially saying that this generation is over and nothing more can be done.  I think this is kind of an ignorant point of view given the ever-expanding surprises and capabilities of the PS2, even 8 years after it was released--effects were being pulled off in titles like The Force Unleashed that people didn't think they could do on the system.  So, I think he's over-simplifying based on hardware specs.

Essentially, I think Molyneux is overstating, and the Crytek dev is understating.  The Xbox360 and PS3 are very powerful machines.  Sure, they aren't quite on the level of the highest current PC platforms, but seriously now--there's a lot that can be done with both machines, and if Kinect and Move are properly supported, there will continue to be impressive and creative games.  Very few systems, it seems, are allowed to be fully maxed before being retired.  The GameCube certainly wasn't, and it took an extremely long time before the PS2 had finally been completely put through it's paces. 

Clever developers will be constantly finding new tricks and gimmicks to pull surprises out of the Xbox360 and PS3.  I think the Crytek dev is spoiled by the general unlimited (as it's ever-growing) ceiling of PC gaming, and while there is that clip out there showing that Mafia II is ever so slightly more graphically advanced, that's hardly enough of a leap to warrant a new generation.  The next gen machines need to make this generation look like last generation.  Not "This Generation 1.2."

There's much more to great game design than generally unlimited hardware power. 



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Squilliam said:


My internet connection is less laggy, wanna give it a go?


Heck yeah dude.



If Pete is trying to carry this torch then I've got to believe the 360 maxed out somewhere late 2008 and MS is going to start dropping ambiguos hints of a new console late next year.



Not that I'm saying the 360 is close to being maxed.

 

But Molyneux is well known for talking out of his arse. So take anythign he says with a grain of salt.



                            

Carl2291 said:

Not that I'm saying the 360 is close to being maxed.

 

But Molyneux is well known for talking out of his arse. So take anythign he says with a grain of salt.


i'm just trying to balance out Pete's hyperbole with reality and thats what I came up with.



youarebadatgames said:
Badassbab said:
Jadedx said:
Hynad said:
Cueil said:

Isn't ignorance bliss... not a single developer has used the VMX units on the system and from what Corrinne Yu said there is a ton of untapped potential.  I'll see if I can't find the videos and link them

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/InsideXbox/Corrinne-Yu-Principal-Engine-Architect-Halo-Team-Microsoft-Part-One/

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/InsideXbox/Corrinne-Yu-Principal-Engine-Architect-for-Halo-Team-Microsoft-Part-Two/

It's more then a bit on the technical side but she talks about everything including the PS3 and the benefits of coders being  forced to work on the hardware and how that makes their games better on the 360

She actually said, and I quote: "In fact like there's a lot of games coming in, you know, that aren't doing parallelized spectorised pipelines on, you know, on the VMX."

This doesn't translate, at all, to "not a single developer has made use of the VMX". 

Like you said, isn't ignorance bliss...

His main point was that she basically said the 360 is too easy to dev for so nobody takes full advantage of it.Crytek, Firebird, and 343 are all gonna make 360 bleed!

Yeah but MS are kinda to blame for that forcing developers to use Direct X so as to be BC with the future Xbox. Look at PS3 first party games, they program to the metal and the results have been spectacular. Now the 360 is meant to be going another 5 years let's hope MS relax those restrictions as I doubt many gamers will be fussed about the new Xbox being BC.

Programming to the metal is good, but what happens when PS4 ditches Cell since it's dead tech anyways?  That's a lot of wasted effort, and I suspect the devs would never have even bothered learning Cell had Sony not been bankrolling them.  I'd say the productivity gain from abstraction layers outweighs the relatively minor graphical improvements of PS3 exclusives by a lot.

Nobody buys games because of graphics unless it is substantially better - of which there is nothing on both consoles and PCs.  That's why there's not going to be a new console anytime soon, rendering in 60FPS full HD with massive AA/AF isn't going to be a selling point cause graphics today aren't 4x noticably better than previous gen.  Most likely they will wait until GPGPU's become more integrated and flexible.

First paragraph- True but devs should have the freedom to do their own thing as long as it meets an adequate quality level. I'd hate to think Sony was holding Naughty Dog back from getting the best out of the PS3 because of some future BC issue.

Second paragraph- Agree but problem is as long as consoles cannot be internally upgraded developers will always try and max them out which often means downgrading or omitting fps, AA, AF etc.