Michael-5 said:
I don't know how to edit the code as well as you do so I'm just going to number my responces.
1. I mentioned battlefield: Bad Comapny 2 because Modern Warfare 2 is about 1.6 million units shy of 10 million, thats how many units Battlefield: Bad Company 2, a great FPS alternative, sold. Thats a hug distance. You can't assume it's going to sell that many units already 9 months after launch, and 3 months from a sequel.
??????????????
MW2 is a way bigger brand so comparing them is useless
I figured out this bold stuff, as for this point, nvm I don't think you get it.
2. Your arguing that GT5 will sell 3-4 times as well as Forza Motorsport because "It's the best Racing Game", my arguement is that if you actually played Forza for 360, and GTR for PC, you will see that there are flaws to GT that may have people consider alternatives.
I never said people will only buy it becasue its the best,i said it sell 10m on its brand,its quality and its loyal fans
and your biggest fail point is that you are saying even comparing it to forza and saying it will sell 3-4times forza,i think GT games have set the standard till now and don't need something like forza to it to compare to
you are foolish if you think alternatives matter much,there are alternative and actually better to MW2 like BFBC2 and many others but what do people buy MW2.
Brand will definatly help it sell, I still estimate 8 million sales you know that.
I disagree about your Forza Response, on the current generation Forza has set the standard. Even in most reviews they say that Forza is the best racing game on a current generation platform.
Also competition matters, Forza is not an alternative, the quality of the Forza franchise has gotten so much, it's now a proper compeditor, fighting for market share. A significant portion of people have switched to Forza since 2005 (GT4), you need to realize that. Before this generation Gran Turismo had no direct compeditor. NFS is street racing, and Mario Kart is go karts. Don't you think that if Gears never came out, that Killzone would have sold a lot better?
Even if it is the best, I don't think it will be that much better then Forza, and as someone who owns ALL past Forza's and Gran Turismo titles (I own Forza 1-3, and GT 1-4, as well as PSP), my opinion should be taken seriously.
there will be major difference,just look at the garage of GT5
Forza has more race tracks, and have you actually looked at the GT5 garage? Some of the cars are minorly different. I mean in Gran Turismo PSP I have like 8 Lotus Elise's, in Forza 3 there is only 1. 1,000 cars is merly a marketing ploy, a lot of those cars are essentially duplicates.
"I don't think it will be much better than forza"-what the hell is that,huh?it should be more like forza will not be far from GT not the other way
What difference does this make?
and if you think Turn 10 will beat PD then keep dreaming
What do you mean "beat?" Saleswise, obviously not? Quality, that depends because both games have flaws and perks, and to some one of the games perks or the others flaws might make it more appealing. E.G. I hate repeating races for money like I did in prior Gran Turismo's, so thats a crital flaw that makes Forza More appealing to me, also a proper steering wheel is another perk for Forza.
I won't lie, I do like Forza 2 and 3 over all past Gran Turismo games. Mainly because after each race I earn enough money to purchase a new car and don't have to repeat races under the exact same circumstances (car, track, opponents, etc)
thats called making you better and better and make you earn hard for the higher achievments
It's called never letting me drive all the cars I want unless I spend my entire time playing that game, forcing me to drive the same damn Mustang over and over and over until I get bored and put in some other game. It's called boring (but I still love GT for the realism).
3. GT4 came out in 2005, and since 2005 a lot of great racing games have come out for people who eventually got bored of GT4, or who just wanted more modern cars. You completly ignored my point, which was that a lot of GT fans may have switched over to a different Racing Sim (Forza), or another casual racer (PGR).
like they didn't migrate much in NFS days,huh? which was biiger than both Forza and PGR and other GTR
Forza 3 outsold NFS Shift on both consoles, look it up :P PGR on a single console is still big.
AND Don't even bring GTR in here
GT4 still sold 11m
10.55 million, not much over 10 million, and the PS3 base is a lot smaller then the PS2 base. Also Wii stole a lot of the casual audience.
4. This is actually a good point.
Killzone and Resistance are proper compeditors to Halo and Gears of War, but you should compare the ratings. Halo gets 9.6-9.8 ratings, and Gears is generally around 9.5. Killzone and Resistance usually get 9.1-9.2 ratings.
Killzone is actually a 9.5 rated and same as HALO games
and hell you lose again on that point,MW2 scored below all of them and sold more
Metacritic: Resistance 2: 8.7, Killzone 9.1, Gears of War 2: 9.3, Gears of War: 9.4, MW2: 9.4, Halo 3: 9.4
However Metacritic takes an average, giving equal weight to small websites. I usually look at IGN and Gametrailers.
GT: Resistance 2: 9.1, Killzone 2: 9.2, MW2: 9.5, Gears 2: 9.5, Halo 3: 9.8
IGN: Killzone 2: 9.4, Resistance 2: 9.5, MW2: 9.5, Gears 2: 9.5, Halo 3: 9.5
Do your research, I did.
However I do beleive IGN is slightly PS3 biased because I do notice they generally give significantly higher reviews then the average for PS3 games, but not for 360 games.
Still a valid point, Forza got 9.2-9.5 ratings, and sold somewhere inbetween Gears and Resistance. If games sold exclusivly off ratings, and GT5 gets 9.8 It could sell just as well as Halo.
you should learn scores always don't bring sales
and Gears is higher rated than HALO and still HALO sells more
Metacritic: Gears 2: 9.3, Gears & Halo 3: 9.4
GT: Gears: 9.1, Gears 2: 9.5, Halo 3: 9.8
IGN: Gears: 9.4, Gears 2 & Halo 3: 9.5
I also said IF games sold exclusivly off ratings....rating do affect sales, If GT PSP got 9.5's/10 instead of 6-7's/10, I bet it would have doubled it's sales.
This is a good point, I won't argue with this one too much. I will say that Killzone 1 had low reviews (7.5's/10), so that could have also affected sales, and Halo 3 came out only 3 years after Halo 2, not 5 like Killzone and GT.
There are other factors to consider, but baised on ratings alone (assuming GT gets a score greater then 9.5), it may break 10 million.
it will break 10m even if it gets below 9.5
and again the time period doesn't matter much here
I I disagree, but I respect your opinion, GT2 didn't break 10 million sales, and it was released 4 years after the launch of the PS1. GT4 barely broke 10 million as well and also it was released 4 years after the launch of the PS2.
I think that if GT5 gets below 9.5/10 it definatly wont break 10 million, but it has a chance if it gets 9.8's/10 commonly.
5. huh? You said some people want to wait for the best, I said a lot of people want the best right now, and I think since Forza 2, for the last 3 years Forza has been "the best."
sure but they aren't specifically GT fans
Simulation Racing Game fans want the best, right now thats Forza 3, and before Forza 3 it's arguable that Forza 2 was the best (mainly since GT4 was prior generation and had outdated physics and graphics). People waited 2 years for the best, and for the last 3 years thats been Forza. Maybe GT5 will be better, but then agiain if Forza 4 comes out before GT6 that will again be the best.
See Microsoft dumps so much money into Turn 10, that Forza has actually gotten pretty good. Soo good that I think people decide GT versus Forza as the best baised on which is the newest, and brand loyalty. That's it.
6. A large chunck of GT sales are to Casual gamers (same goes for Halo, and Call of Duty). PS2 was the console for casual gamers last gen, and PS1 was the same the generation before that. This time around Wii is the casual gamer system, and Mario Kart sales have tripled. Using this arguement, GT sales may very well half prior installments.
not really by GT5P sales
and casuals just mainly run behind the cool stuff and GT5 surely be the cool stuff
If casual gamers don't have a PS3, how can they play it? and the only Prologue game Polyphony Digital made before GT5P, was GT4P, which wasn't even released in North America, and come out only a year before GT4 in Europe and Asia, and was discontinued after that year. So for all we know, half, or even 80% of Gran Turismo owners have Prologue. The only usable data you can use from Prologue is that GT5 will sell better then Prologue, so above 4 million.
7. I'm just nerdy and don't like when people make claims without evidence to back them up. I can make a thread saying GT5 will sell 3 million, and a swarm of people will come and be annoyed.
Anyway, I refer to myself in this arguement because I can't say that, some or most, people would want ot wait on GT5 when Forza 3 is already out. I only know for certain what I feel, and probably a sizable chunk of gamers, especially the hardcore race fans. you can disagree all you want, but you can't say im wrong.
sure but your long theories are annoying and the problem is that in each of that theory you seem to PS3 not to make 10m games
It's my opinion, and it's just as valid as yours. What evidence do you have that GT5 will sell 10 million units, and thus outsell GT2, and possibly GT1 and 4? PS3 is a less successful console, GT5 is comming out late into PS3's life, there is more competition now... I mean do you really think NASCAR will change all that? I have evidence to back up my opinion, and your the one hastling me because I said I beleive only MW2 will be the only PS3 game to cross 10 million units sold. You have no evidence, or supporting arguements, your simply telling me "Brand loyalty", well in the past GT has sold under 10 million, where was the brand loyalty then?
As for GT5, it's been 5 years since GT4 came out, you count it from the release of the prior installment, not launch. That would make no sence. Did no new cars come out from 2005-2006 that people may want to drive? If there was no update in that timeframe then yes people were waiting on a new game, and it counts.
sure but perfect games just don't come around like that
and they did release GT5P and GT HD for free
GT5 is far from perfect, you clearly don't play enough racing games to understand that. It doesn't even have a proper steering wheel! Or Porsches, or simulation damage, or even cosmetic damage on 80% of the cars.
As for Gran Turismo having more cars as an excuse on why most cars have no damage,
all cars have damage actually and even you consider the premium cars,even then its more than forza
No they do not, look it up. Only I beleive 170/1000 cars have damage, where Forza 3 has almost 500 cars now? all with simulation damage? Never mind the cosmetic damage in GT5.
I can ram people at full speed in GT5, and the only punishment I will get is a warning, or an estimated reduction in power baised on the speed of the colision, and not actually dependent on the type of colission itself.
Hell until recently, they didn't even have rollovers in GT5.
you can't use graphics as an excuse. GT5 has been in development for 5 years, way more then Forza. They have had time to put it in their cars, but you know they can't.
but even FORza 3 thei latest isn't great and because they are producing game after game,their graphics should be the same as GT LATEST.
Want to know why? Turn 10 bought the rights to simulation damage on cars in a video game. GT5 can only do cosmetic damage to cars, and games like Burnout and Grid avoid the issue altogether by not being a simulator. Thats why GT5 only has cosmetic damage, and it only has it on about 1/5th the cars because Polyphony decided to add this in late into the games development.
YOU ARE CRACKED.
GT5 has all cars in damage but only the top 200 or so cars have premium dmage and this 200 cars are premium cars
if they can do license for Ferraris then they can do it for Volkswagen
So only 200 cars have damage correct? Those door flying open is prenium damage correct, but they still don't suffer engine damage! Did you not watch that Subaru WRX video, the guy hit a wall at 100km/h and drove off with a dent in his hood, and I don't know if Ferrari's have "premium damage" in GT5. I do know that this is the first GT game with licenced Ferrari's, Lamborghini's and Bughatti's.
It's definatly a reason why many people would prefer Forza over GT.
oh so now you found a main reason
it won't last long coming this november
Never said main, stop putting words into my mouth, and you know it's definatly a good solid reason why some people prefer Forza over Gran Turismo.
Buddy, I don't dislike GT or anything, it's an awesome title, I just seriously doubt it will break 10 million. The best selling exclusive PS3 title now is MGS4, at 4.9 million.
I'm also not trying to make GT5 inferior to Forza, I'm just not living in a dream world where everyone loves PS3, and everyone who plays racing games wants GT, and Forza is just a small game that doesn't budge the market in any way what so ever. Things have changed since the PS1 and PS2 era, and I really don't think GT has the market dominance it once used to. The racing market is over saturated, GT5 will outsell Forza baised on brand loyalty, and likely slightly higher reviews, but as a game it's not on a different plateau as Forza like you think it is.
As for this graphics arguement, exteriorwise, I see no difference from Forza and gran Turismo. Interior I'll agree GT wins because it shows the interior in the rear view, but graphically I don't see a difference, and I don't think there really is one.
sure you don't,you don't see any PS3 games better looking
1080p GT5 alone says its better than Forza
Forza is 1080p, at launch it wasn't, but it was patched, seriously, put in your copy of Forza 3...wait I bet you only own a PS3.
Graphically I do see Killzone 2, MGS 4, and GT 5 as PS3 powerhouses of graphics, but when you compare them to Gears of War 2, Forza Motorsport 3, and Halo: Reach, I see no difference, and many websites gave Gears 2 best graphics in 2008 Oover MGS4.
If you really want to see a game with good graphics, play Mass Effect 2 or Crysis on a gaming PC. WOW, it's a whole level up from 360 and PS3 graphics, it's almost like a movie.
8. Your......silly, I own both a PS3 and a 360, and I own all prior GT and Forza games. I'm also getting GT5, maybe not on launch day, but in November. I'm not trying to argue that Forza is a better game then Gran Turismo, I'm only arguing that the differences aren't THAT huge in quality. So why do people like you assume GT5 will sell 3 times as well as Forza? Except for GT3, most GT games sell around 10 million units, and there are many reasons to beleive this will be the worst selling one (but not necessarily the worst game of the franchise, probably the best).
cause GT5P already did 5m and if that sold more than forza,this will certainly do alot better.
and it has bigger brand,loyalty and overall will prove to be a better game
So thats why I beleive it will sell 8 million, and overall it may not be a better game. I played a lot of Gran turismo and Forza, GT5 really needs to step up the game from Prologue to be better.
My vote is still 1, Modern Warfare 2, and I think it will just barely make it. I still think GT5 will sell at best 8.5 million units, but who knows. It is possible that it will break 10 million, but it's also possible it will sell only 5 million.
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