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Forums - PC - PC Devs Abandoning Microsoft For Valve

Antabus said:
jon1138 said:

What's the problem with GFWL ???

I like it because it allow me to to go on Xbox Live from my PC. I can check mailbox, see connected friends, unlock achievements...


Isn't it obvious? The real problem is that it is a ms product!

That's got nothing to do with anything. I use MS products every day, but that's because Visual Studio, SQL Server, Office and Windows 7 are excellent. I actively avoid games that use GfWL because it's shit.



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Antabus said:
shio said:4
 

1. You can get PC games far cheaper than on retail. Even if you consider trading, the digital version will still often cost less money. Due to the open of competitive nature of PC Gaming, the PC DD services are forced to constantly improve so as not to stay left behind.

Now, ALL PC DD services have ridiculous sales every week, some bordering insanity, and which service started it all? It was STEAM!!! If you can find Masss Effect for $5 on Retail, Bioshock for $5 on retail, Team Fortress 2 for $1 on retail, 20 THQ games for $25, ALL id Soft ALL Bethesda games for $50, etc...

http://www.thehut.com/games/platforms/pc/mass-effect/9965618.html - 19,99€ on steam

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/1063383/-/Product.html?page=title&P36=QFKM2E&affid=finddvd&awc=buyat&_$ja=tsid:11516|prd:finddvd - 13,99€ retail vs 19,99€ on steam

TF2 is 19,99€ at the moment on steam.

http://www.shopto.net/page.php?page=dettagli&codart=PCHA09

But yeah, you are talking about deals. Guess what? Retail has them too! Usually you get a physical copy for cheaper than a download. You can also sell the physical copy later. You are stuck with your steam download. Can you even sell your steam account? Propably not, since steam is such a ripoff.

Yes, Steam deals are awesome,just like most deals from PC DD services. It's not my fault if you don't want to take advantage of those deals.

I bought Mass Effect on Steam for $5 last year, it's been a long time since then.



TauKappaNASA said:

If it was just steam they could price however they want. Competition is not a bad thing...whether the service is good or not, more options (bad or good) are better then no options at all

Valve doesn't put the prices on the games.... it's the publishers that price their own games.

Valve and Steam don't control the prices of games, unlike what Microsoft does on Xbox Live. Microsoft didn't even allow Valve to release the DLC free for the X360 version, while it was free for the PC version.



Zkuq said:
blunty51 said:

1. The way I see it is, like XBL & PSN, you have one standard area for everything to be implemented. This would be achievements, leaderboards etc.

2. When you have an exclusive title on either XBL or PSN, then there's no competition there too isn't there? So I see it being no different when you have one service for PC. If you have a multiplatform title, there really should be no reason to charge higher on the PC just because there's one online service there. If you DO have an exclusive PC title, the reason for charging higher there should be no different than a reason to charge higher on an exclusive title for PSN, or XBL.

1. I'm fine with that as long as I'm not forced to use that system. Especially if that system also includes mandatory DRM. It would be pretty good if they made it so you get the game when you buy it but you can register it on Steam (using CD-key like always) and get all the benefits from Steam, as well as DRM. If Steam really is so great everyone should use it, then obviously piracy would disappear because everyone would want all those neat extras. Right?

I didn't think so either. But it would be a good system nevertheless, much better than current system. Retail titles forcing me to use Steam = EVIL.

2. Competition goes beyond prices. I'm more than a bit concerned about what happens to my games in the future. Also, I don't buy too much stuff on consoles either.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I don't want useless software running in the background all the time. I don't want to use some useless piece of software every time I want to play my games. That's one reason why I prefer Impulse over Steam if I want to buy something digitally. And GOG.com is the best thing to have happened to digital distribution, only it's a bit limited. I get what I pay for, and only what I pay for - the game. No DRM, and if I want something else, for messaging for example, I can grab it somewhere else.

Let's face it, we all love the way PC gaming has traditionally had no restrictions whatsoever and offered endless flexibility, unlike consoles. But personally I'm willing to give up some of that freedom (just some!!) to support an effort to curb piracy, which is killing PC gaming. I can live with the useless piece of software in the background, and being tied to an account. If I couldn't play it on other PCs, or copy my save files, then that would surely be a problem (for which I see the competition is good for, to make sure a place like Steam doesn't get carried away with those sort of restrictions). It's just a matter of preference I suppose.



shio said:

Yes, Steam deals are awesome,just like most deals from PC DD services. It's not my fault if you don't want to take advantage of those deals.

I bought Mass Effect on Steam for $5 last year, it's been a long time since then.

Sure. But there are also deals on retailers. You can't say that a DD service is cheaper than retail if it is because of some random deals. Especially if you count just the DD deals and ignore the retail deals.

You should use the prices at the moment. I bet there are very few games right now which are cheaper on steam than on retail.



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Antabus said:
shio said:

Yes, Steam deals are awesome,just like most deals from PC DD services. It's not my fault if you don't want to take advantage of those deals.

I bought Mass Effect on Steam for $5 last year, it's been a long time since then.

Sure. But there are also deals on retailers. You can't say that a DD service is cheaper than retail if it is because of some random deals. Especially if you count just the DD deals and ignore the retail deals.

You should use the prices at the moment. I bet there are very few games right now which are cheaper on steam than on retail.

Except that they are NOT just "some random" deals. There was an SE pack deal which saved you around $468 a few weeks ago. Can you ever top that?



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vlad321 said:
Antabus said:
shio said:

Yes, Steam deals are awesome,just like most deals from PC DD services. It's not my fault if you don't want to take advantage of those deals.

I bought Mass Effect on Steam for $5 last year, it's been a long time since then.

Sure. But there are also deals on retailers. You can't say that a DD service is cheaper than retail if it is because of some random deals. Especially if you count just the DD deals and ignore the retail deals.

You should use the prices at the moment. I bet there are very few games right now which are cheaper on steam than on retail.

Except that they are NOT just "some random" deals. There was an SE pack deal which saved you around $468 a few weeks ago. Can you ever top that?

No, I propably can't because I don't know what that pack included and how much did it cost. Could you tell me that? Was this saving based on what it would cost on retail or steam prices?

Is the deal available now? If not, when is it available? I guess you should know, since it is not random.

Found the pack, so:

battlestations pacific - normal steam price 34,99€ - 6€ retail
arkham asylum -  49.99€ - 15€
supreme commander 2 - 34,99€ - 10€
just cause 2 - 49,99€ - 10€
kane&lynch - 29,99€ - 6€
mini ninjas - 39,99€ - 7€
order of war - 37,99€ - 5€

tomb raider underworld -  29,99€ - 5€

244€ savings on just those games! I am not going to bother with other games, but the results are likely to be similar. Not as good as steam, but close enough. You can even sell those games if you don't happen to like them. Buy from steam and you are stuck with the crap you bought.



blunty51 said:

Let's face it, we all love the way PC gaming has traditionally had no restrictions whatsoever and offered endless flexibility, unlike consoles. But personally I'm willing to give up some of that freedom (just some!!) to support an effort to curb piracy, which is killing PC gaming. I can live with the useless piece of software in the background, and being tied to an account. If I couldn't play it on other PCs, or copy my save files, then that would surely be a problem (for which I see the competition is good for, to make sure a place like Steam doesn't get carried away with those sort of restrictions). It's just a matter of preference I suppose.

I still haven't seen a DRM system that actually works. I haven't heard of a single game that hasn't been cracked despite trying. Even Steam games can be pirated. But surely you must have noticed how much publishers have been complaining about people buying used games? Somehow I feel using Steam is seen as a good way to prevent that, even more than it is seen as a working DRM system.

Also, this doesn't entirely belong here but still: "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.". Again, not entirely fitting here but still worth thinking.

vlad321 said:

Except that they are NOT just "some random" deals. There was an SE pack deal which saved you around $468 a few weeks ago. Can you ever top that?

Can you honestly say you were interested in all of those games? I'm sure you would have liked to remove half of the games because they weren't interesting if it was reflected in the price as well, even though you would have "saved" less.



shio said:
TauKappaNASA said:

If it was just steam they could price however they want. Competition is not a bad thing...whether the service is good or not, more options (bad or good) are better then no options at all

Valve doesn't put the prices on the games.... it's the publishers that price their own games.

Valve and Steam don't control the prices of games, unlike what Microsoft does on Xbox Live. Microsoft didn't even allow Valve to release the DLC free for the X360 version, while it was free for the PC version.

The pricing all depends on how big everyone's cut is. If Valve became the only digital distributor then they could charge the publishers X amount more to have their games on the service. In turn publishers jack up the asking price for their game. That's all i'm saying. Competition is good.



Hide your kids, hide your wife

Zkuq said:
ssj12 said:

1. Here is the thing. Its all digital so obviously used games or selling your games went out the window. Its what happens when things modernize and become easier for the general user. Things must be sacrificed which I would much rather lose the ability to sell and buy used games rather then keep the ability to lose a physical disc or damage it.

2. Also lack of competition is a joke. There are at least 3 other services that offer similar to Steam and tend to have the same publishers of titles. First party titles stay exclusive and so does some 3rd party titles, but overall the majority stays open and competitive like the console market.

1. I've never lost or damaged a disc of mine. If one is careless enough to do so, he fully deserves it. Also, I'm not ready to throw my rights out of the windows no matter what everyone says.

2. This guy mentioned this as a way towards having one standard, and that standard is Steam. That's the future I don't want. Like you said, now there is competition.

1. Congrats. You have some sense of responsibility and pride. But accidents can happen and discs do rot. Any PS1 games and old PC games should have maybe another year or two before they start getting disc rot. Any physical data disc will eventually be destroyed by time.

2. Steam's competition has existed for years. Its not now since Direct-2-Drive, Impulse, and several others have existed and stayed strong for at least a decade now. Just because you haven't heard of these doesn't mean they dont exist and that they dont have decent sized user bases ranging into the millions of users each.



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