Oh I am not upset in the least :). I have been having this exact same conversation on these boards for 2-3 years now.

I took your post as saying you think I want to let old, sick, and handy caped people to die. And that's just not my position.

Most people who are of that 47%, are low income working class. They have jobs, have nothing wrong with them, and work for a living. I am also not upset with them. They pay all the taxes the government requires of them. I am upset, that the number the government requires, is 0.

I also don't think we should get rid of income tax. I am just saying everyone should have a vested interest in the cost of things. for 47% of the population, they don't care what things cost, yet they get to vote on how they spend other peoples money.

And by the way, I don't blame Obama for our tax situation. I blame Congress. Congress makes the budget, not the president.

Dude, I am not attacking you.  I agreed that everyone should pay there way so we basically have the same idea. (The Hitler thing was uncalled for though sorry.)  I just understand that it will never go back to the old days of no income tax and everyone takes care of their neighbor.  The simple fact is without an income tax we wouldn't have an interstate system, or anything that made the 20th century worth living in such as vaccines, and medicines.   Thank god we do have it and thank god people pay it in or we would all be without electricity and running water, except for the chosen few at the top.  Sort of like Africa is right now, look it up.  Most of them don't have an income tax.  Well at least most of them don't pay one in anyway.

And I do agree we need to get back to some of the ways of the past but not having an income tax is a horrid idea.  How exactly are we supposed to pay of our national debt?  Just tell them to piss off we have nukes?  Sure we could do that and I am certain we could probably get away with it.  But the rest of the world would be in economic chaos.  I don't get where your saying I don't have anything to stand on.  I explained my examples and I am certain they made sense to most of us.  You just need to chill out and we can agree to disagree.

And by the way I'm not a left wing nut, commie, or right wing jerkoff.  I am in the center, and I believe both sides have good people in them, they are just so foolish they can't agree to get along and work together.  Luckily for the rest of the world its like this or there would be no stopping us.  In 15 years when China over takes us as the supreme economic power were all doomed.  I will only be 53 and at that point I will be probably be jobless and my savings spent.  Along with half of the rest of us americans.  The king is dead or dieing, long live the king....

Again, I am not attacking you but this is a heated subject.

Oh I am not upset in the least :). I have been having this exact same conversation on these boards for 2-3 years now.

I took your post as saying you think I want to let old, sick, and handy caped people to die. And that's just not my position.

Most people who are of that 47%, are low income working class. They have jobs, have nothing wrong with them, and work for a living. I am also not upset with them. They pay all the taxes the government requires of them. I am upset, that the number the government requires, is 0.

I also don't think we should get rid of income tax. I am just saying everyone should have a vested interest in the cost of things. for 47% of the population, they don't care what things cost, yet they get to vote on how they spend other peoples money.

And by the way, I don't blame Obama for our tax situation. I blame Congress. Congress makes the budget, not the president.

Usually these people that your talking about though are living paycheck to paycheck.  When I first got out of school I was lucky and apprenticed doing Security Installation.  And that job paid very well after I learned the ropes and could do the job by myself.  Unfortunately a lot of people are not able to get good jobs because of whatever reason.  And while it does suck they get by not paying any money in, I don't think they should be required to do anything more.  

If they had some sort of incentive to actually work their way out of poverty or the lower class they are in, then things would change.   And an easy way for this to happen is if they had a way to goto college.  The government should inact some sort of 2 year commitment to anyone who turns 18 and graduates high school.  What I mean is this, once you hit 18 and are out of school you are assigned a job that the government thinks best suites you or they give you a choice.  Military service, infrastructure work building roads, bridges, schools etc..  (it could be anything really).  Pay these people minimum wage and give them free healthcare until their time is done.  Once they are finished with the commitment they get either free or very low cost community college.  

The government would get 2 years work out of everyone.  These people would then go on to have an opportunity for bettering their-selves and then they would pay more tax in during their life time because they would be college graduates. 

It will never happen though because our society wouldn't allow it.

Well, we do kind of have that with the army already. For most people if you enlist for a four year term and fullfill your duty (do not get discharged or get in trouble) you can usually get 40k for college I believe. I think the biggest two problems is that these people are either unmotivated and do not want to work hard, or do not honestly believe that they can get a head with hard work. The first is hard to fix, but the second can be worked on with good government regulation that helped people build themselves up instead of getting them in holes(looking at payday advance places here, and alot of the credit card problems are getting looked at or changed already)

Yes, I know they already do have a program for those in the Military.  However joining the army scares the shit out of a lot of people.  And simply put, some people have no chance at making it in the military.  Thats why they should have something other than just the Military.  It wouldn't take very long for a program like this to become a success.  There is so much money being spent on infrastructure its silly.  Just recently there was a 8 mile stretch of road built near my home and it cost something like 100 million dollars.  That price is insane, because the road was built through farmland and had only 2 small bridges.    A program like this could cut the costs in half.   So we either get cheaper roads or more roads being built for the same price.

Not to mention everyone who does the program will be trained in some sort of skill set that would be useful in their lives even if the decided not to goto college.   It would also force places like McDonalds to increase their pay because these people would have the skill sets and wouldn't need to work flipping burgers.  All around it would do nothing but incourage people to do better with their life.

What about the current road workers put out of business? I know many 18 year olds who already go into construction, and most would rather not go to more school. They are happy doing what they like working with their hands. School is not for everyone, especially college. I myself am capable of going to college( I can pay my way as I go, and I am smart enough to pass) but for what I want to do in life it will not help me. I think we would be better off with a good college system, and a good trade school system. We are severly lacking in the latter. I know many people who could go to school for a shorter period of time and learn a specific skill set instead of the general education you get at college. Many feel that the extra classes are a waste and just want to learn what they need to to get a job they like.

If you don't goto college then maybe you get free health care for a few years or you get some other type of incentive like no tax until you reach a certain age or you make x amount of money.  There are tons of ways you could receive an incentive for your service to the government.

There would probably be some job losses at first, but then after a while things would level off and it would work much better than the current system.  Things are basically getting to expensive and something has to be done.  I mean jeez 100 million dollars for an 8 mile stretch of road?  Cut that in half and use those free workers to build low income homes with the money that is saved.

As you said some people don't want to goto college for whatever reason.  And you shouldn't be required to.  But for every one of you there are atleast one that can't goto school because its simply to expensive.  So something needs to be done and this idea would be a good way of changing things.

It will never happen because there would be to many people claiming it would be the first steps toward communism or something stupid like that.  I guess they could make the program not mandatory but I doubt you would get that many workers signing up for minimum wage work.  Even though in the long run it would drag them out of poverty.

Oh I am not upset in the least :). I have been having this exact same conversation on these boards for 2-3 years now.

I took your post as saying you think I want to let old, sick, and handy caped people to die. And that's just not my position.

Most people who are of that 47%, are low income working class. They have jobs, have nothing wrong with them, and work for a living. I am also not upset with them. They pay all the taxes the government requires of them. I am upset, that the number the government requires, is 0.

I also don't think we should get rid of income tax. I am just saying everyone should have a vested interest in the cost of things. for 47% of the population, they don't care what things cost, yet they get to vote on how they spend other peoples money.

And by the way, I don't blame Obama for our tax situation. I blame Congress. Congress makes the budget, not the president.

Usually these people that your talking about though are living paycheck to paycheck.  When I first got out of school I was lucky and apprenticed doing Security Installation.  And that job paid very well after I learned the ropes and could do the job by myself.  Unfortunately a lot of people are not able to get good jobs because of whatever reason.  And while it does suck they get by not paying any money in, I don't think they should be required to do anything more.  

If they had some sort of incentive to actually work their way out of poverty or the lower class they are in, then things would change.   And an easy way for this to happen is if they had a way to goto college.  The government should inact some sort of 2 year commitment to anyone who turns 18 and graduates high school.  What I mean is this, once you hit 18 and are out of school you are assigned a job that the government thinks best suites you or they give you a choice.  Military service, infrastructure work building roads, bridges, schools etc..  (it could be anything really).  Pay these people minimum wage and give them free healthcare until their time is done.  Once they are finished with the commitment they get either free or very low cost community college.  

The government would get 2 years work out of everyone.  These people would then go on to have an opportunity for bettering their-selves and then they would pay more tax in during their life time because they would be college graduates. 

It will never happen though because our society wouldn't allow it.