Nik24 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
fastyxx said:
It's really not worth my time, as it's not about trying to change someone's mind. It ain't happening in either direction. We'll see, as we usually do, in about 10-20 years who was right. When the sheep run back to "safety" 2.5 years from now (and to a lesser extent this fall) and go back to Bush-style policies - which is exactly what Boehner is promoting - and everything cycles back to what started all this mess in the first place, I hope you all enjoy it immensely.
Health care was a ticking time bomb in this country. Now costs will be up slightly, but virtually everyone will get health care - - and the end result of it isn't a complete meltdown for the small businesses and working/middle classes the way we were headed. I'm sorry, but you can't put a price on taking care of your citizens. We're willing to spend trillions to protect 4,000 people from dying in an attack but we're not willing to spend the same to help millions stay healthy and safe and productive? Ridiculous. Mafoo- you're quick to cite the CBO when you feel lie it will help, but never when they say the opposite. Read the fine print. Compare the original CBO report six weeks before the bill passed to the one that actually passed after the moderate/right concessions were made to get the last few votes. It doesn't go far ENOUGH to really hit the cost points. (And by the way, I assume you are in favor of ending the Bush tax cuts if you care what the CBO has to say about things so much.)
If he does nothing else in his presidency, he has changed the way we view and understand health care, and in a way that we will look back at the way we were doing things in 2005 and think we were insane. It may not be in the exact form that passed, but it will be different and caused from this first step. And it's historic and something to be proud of.
Again, I already know your responses, and I really don't care, and I don't plan to come back and read the demands that the poor kid with cancer is plum out of luck because the wealthy guy with the sweet hookup has to pay an extra $50 a month. That the girl in my class who died of organ failure in the waiting room while the private hospital squabbled over her unemployed parents' lack of insurance was just screwed because her parents didn't want her to live enough. If they did, they would have just wished themselves CEO of Apple or something. That my friend who is unemployed after cutbacks and goes out and looks for suitable work every day should just kill herself and stop being a drain on society. My next door neighbor did that when I was little. Didn't work out so well for his kids. Can the government solve all these issues alone? No. We all pitch in directly as well. But without that net, it'll be chaos.
I'll stand by my original point. He's less than 20 months into a 48 month term, inheriting perhaps one of the 5 worst situations for an incoming president in our history. He's facing a completely oppositional party and made the mistake of believing that they did want to compromise on some points, and he has a gutless bunch of moderate "dems" in the middle that want only to keep their jobs. And the item that he spent almost the entire first year on can not in any way be fairly judged for ten years. There's no way to judge his presidency as "worst" or "best" or "average" or anything at this point. We can barely now really get a grasp on the Bush years. We'll need another decade or so. Hell, we're just now getting a handle on Clinton/Bush I/ Reagan. Don't confuse disagreement with policy with some sort of miraculous ability to see outcomes that no one can see, particularly on the economy, which is the definition of unknowable, even by the most brilliant economists.
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Obama care will kill tens of millions of people over the next 100 years. I care to much for people to let that happen.
Look at it this way. The advancements in science that have been made in the US over the last 100 years, and not in other countries, is because of our healthcare system. If 100 years ago, we had the same healthcare that Obama wants to put into place. Tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people would not be alive today, that are.
In 100 years from now if we keep Obama's healthcare system in place, we will do to the world, what we would have done to the world if we had stifled medical science 100 years ago.
Sure, some people live, but the cure for cancer, AIDS, Auto Immune Deficiencies, Parkinson's, and every other thing we can cure will be cured decades later because of it. The people who die in the mean time are on your hands. Not mine.
To think I want the system I want because I somehow don't care about people, is fucked up.
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lol, this comment alone disqualifies you from having a serious political discussion.
Like fastyxx said, it is way to early to judge a presidency which barely finished its second year.
I want to reiterate again that President Obama passed some of the most substanstial and influential
laws in the first 20 months. ALL previous presidents failed in their endavour to pass a new health care and he did
it despite facing a deeply hostile and radical Republican party. The US has the most expensive and ineffective health
care in the world and even Republian presidents saw the need for a change.
Furthermore, he passed a law, finally delivering an overhaul of the financial institutions which caused the financial crisis.
Again, the Republican party opposed it. Why? How can one justify this? So far they managed to stall a climate bill
which is another CRUCIAL piece of law! The oil crisis in the gulf proofed how important it is to finally focus on
alternative sources of energy.
And to people arguing that the president spends too much money, what is the alternative?
During the Clinton years the US finally had a budget surplus but Bush managed to get us into two wars
and even during a favourable economic situation the budget- deficit had become huge.
The bailout was sadly necessary and with the law mentioned above, he tried to ensure that
something like this crisis would not happen again.
I'm amazed how people can even listen to Fox news and their ridiculous reports.
Every sane person, regardless of one's political affiliation, has to realize how dangerous and
redical these people are. I suggest you watch The Daily Show in order to get a feeling of their insanity.
Or even better, you coud actually try to understand the issues at hand and inform yourself about the political process
in this country.
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