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Forums - General Discussion - Why did you quit Christianity?

pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:

Well, no. That was just my way of saying that I never bought into the Bible, or even the idea of a personal God, full stop.

I mean fair enough you can say "Oh it's allegorical, you aren't supposed to take it literally, you are supposed to see it as symbolic" and I can see where a non-literalist will see the flaw in my reasoning with the examples I've given. But some things that I find unbelievable have to be accepted under the definition of a practising Christian, such as a personal God being the sole creator of the Universe, or Jesus being the son of this personal God.

Literalists and non-literalists alike have to accept these as a pillars of Christianity, they are Universal, and these too are things that I find unbelievable.

may i ask why?

If you mean the first half of my last paragraph, it's because that's the way a theism works. People can be literalists or non-literalists on the same theism, but they still have the same core beliefs.

If you mean the latter half of my last paragraph, it's always struck me that the idea of a personal God is fairly absurd in my opinion. There's so many that I think none of them can be correct. I guess by that I fit the definition of "most people are atheists to all Gods but one, but some of us just go one God further".

That and I see the idea of a God at all being full of endless paradoxes.


But all people believe in the same God. (im talking about 3 major non-pagan religions) They just have diffrent cultures and diffrent book and worhsip him in the other way. Muslims call him ''Allah'', Christians simply call him God, I dont know how Jews call it lol. But its basiclly the same God. They just have diffrent stories

The Jews call him Yahweh. I knew mandatory religious classes at school would come in handy one day, LOL.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:

Well, no. That was just my way of saying that I never bought into the Bible, or even the idea of a personal God, full stop.

I mean fair enough you can say "Oh it's allegorical, you aren't supposed to take it literally, you are supposed to see it as symbolic" and I can see where a non-literalist will see the flaw in my reasoning with the examples I've given. But some things that I find unbelievable have to be accepted under the definition of a practising Christian, such as a personal God being the sole creator of the Universe, or Jesus being the son of this personal God.

Literalists and non-literalists alike have to accept these as a pillars of Christianity, they are Universal, and these too are things that I find unbelievable.

may i ask why?

If you mean the first half of my last paragraph, it's because that's the way a theism works. People can be literalists or non-literalists on the same theism, but they still have the same core beliefs.

If you mean the latter half of my last paragraph, it's always struck me that the idea of a personal God is fairly absurd in my opinion. There's so many that I think none of them can be correct. I guess by that I fit the definition of "most people are atheists to all Gods but one, but some of us just go one God further".

That and I see the idea of a God at all being full of endless paradoxes.


But all people believe in the same God. (im talking about 3 major non-pagan religions) They just have diffrent cultures and diffrent book and worhsip him in the other way. Muslims call him ''Allah'', Christians simply call him God, I dont know how Jews call it lol. But its basiclly the same God. They just have diffrent stories

The Jews call him Yahweh. I knew mandatory religious classes at school would come in handy one day, LOL.


i knew it was something like that, i just didnt want to type it becase i was affraid i was gonna spell it wromg



I dare you to pronounce it!



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:

Well, no. That was just my way of saying that I never bought into the Bible, or even the idea of a personal God, full stop.

I mean fair enough you can say "Oh it's allegorical, you aren't supposed to take it literally, you are supposed to see it as symbolic" and I can see where a non-literalist will see the flaw in my reasoning with the examples I've given. But some things that I find unbelievable have to be accepted under the definition of a practising Christian, such as a personal God being the sole creator of the Universe, or Jesus being the son of this personal God.

Literalists and non-literalists alike have to accept these as a pillars of Christianity, they are Universal, and these too are things that I find unbelievable.

may i ask why?

If you mean the first half of my last paragraph, it's because that's the way a theism works. People can be literalists or non-literalists on the same theism, but they still have the same core beliefs.

If you mean the latter half of my last paragraph, it's always struck me that the idea of a personal God is fairly absurd in my opinion. There's so many that I think none of them can be correct. I guess by that I fit the definition of "most people are atheists to all Gods but one, but some of us just go one God further".

That and I see the idea of a God at all being full of endless paradoxes.


But all people believe in the same God. (im talking about 3 major non-pagan religions) They just have diffrent cultures and diffrent book and worhsip him in the other way. Muslims call him ''Allah'', Christians simply call him God, I dont know how Jews call it lol. But its basiclly the same God. They just have diffrent stories

Do Hindus fit into this category? There are about one billion of them and they don't believe in the Abrahamic God. How about Buddhists? There's nearly half a billion Buddhists. How about people who follow traditional religions (Chinese traditional and African traditional)? There's another half a billion of them. How about those who consider themselves not to be part of organised religion? There's well over a billion of them.

Even using my rough figures you can see that there's 3billion people who don't believe in the God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. They have many Gods, other Gods or no Gods.

Not all people believe in the same God, I think that the God followed by these three religions is one that has become most popular, most likely down solely due to the structure of the religions themselves.

And to be honest, iIf I wanted to be really pedantic I could also look at past populations and show you how other popular religions once had followers comparable (percentage wise) to the level that Islam  or Christianity do today. I can look at Greek gods, Norse gods, Roman Gods, Egyptian gods, etc... But I don't have the time.

...

Also, population sizes mean nothing.  A major God and a minor God have the same standing when you look at them objectively, regardless of the populations that follow them. Both gods would have equal standing.

For example, in the 17th century the vast majority of people (99.9% ) accepted the Geocentric model of the solar system, and only an extremely small minority accepted the Heliocentric model. The fact that 99% of people accepted the geocentric model didn't mean that it was correct, we now know that the tiny minority of people were correct. And belief in a God follows the same logic.



sapphi_snake said:
WessleWoggle said:

I quit christianity because satan promised me eternal life.

Aren't you the Buddha Maitreya?


I'm also the antichrist. 

http://www.satansrapture.com/maitreya.htm



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FaRmLaNd said:
richardhutnik said:
Coca-Cola said:
FaRmLaNd said:

The question of whether gay marriage should or shouldn't be allowed cannot be a religiously decided decision in a secular democracy. For the very reason that a secular democracy is not a theocracy.

Lets put it this way, religions should be happy they exists in a secular democracy and not a theocracy. Why? Because most religious can exist within a secular society but only one can really exist in a theocracy. Take a look at Saudi Arabia and tell me how many churches exist in the country?

Secularism is the only way to go if you want to be able to have multiple religions or none all in the same country.

U.S.A. is a secular democracy

Gay marriage is not just about religion vs. secular, it's deeper than that.  I don't have problems with gay marriage, but marriage has to be defined!  It's going to be a long fight but I do believe in u.s.a., gay marriage will be legal - someday.

The problem you run into here is that the meaning, purpose and demands of what make a marriage a marriage takes shape in a religious context.  By trying to have the same thing in a purely secular context is going to have people arguing for what they feel are their "rights", and that can lead to all sorts of things that undermine the nature of marriage.  Because people argued they had a right to a divorce, then the concept of "til death due you part" got thrown out the window.  Marriage isn't going to work as a concept so long as people keep trying to ground it in rights.  Marriage is the idea of mutual sacrifice for one another, in love.  The belief that the concept of marriage comes from a transcendent being, whose ways are to be followed, elevates marriage to be more, and drives people to be better.

I would say to stop fighting to get society to redefine what marriage is and find something else that would be more viable elsewhere.  I would say to redefine everything as civil unions, for SECULAR purposes and be done with it.

Absolutely, making everything a civil union in regards to the legality of it is the easiest way out. If you want to call it a marriage and have associated religious rituals etc, then thats fine. If you want to call it a marriage and you aren't religious, thats fine, if you start a religion that enshrines gay marriage as holy thats fine. It wouldn't matter because it'd all just be a civil union in the eyes of the law. The religious connotations shouldn't matter legally, they should only matter to the people involved on a religious level if the people want to define it that way.

If people were to honor marriage like it ought, there would be neither the need for the approval of society, or government to acknowledge anything.  You would just do it.  The civil union is just to help society manage when things go wrong, like dividing up of jointly owned property and custody rights of children.  There is also an implied imposing on others who control property that they are required to, or forbidden from, doing certain things with their property in relationship to others.  This last one is where the greatest fight lies now (that and likely custody rights for children).



sapphi_snake said:


What do you mean "you religious people"?  I am not sure religious people are going to be happy with the state labeling everything "Civil unions".  I proposed the civil union solution as a way to deal with the issue of homosexual marriage without having to change the values of society to redefine what it considers to be marriage, before the issue can be resolved.

Yeah, cause it's very hard to say that marriage is between two people (of either gender) rather than between a man and a woman. SOOOO HAAARD.

Why not just say a marriage is between any number of entities who are legally able to sign contracts?  Why deny polyamorious individuals the right to have more than one spouse?  Do you want to rob them of their happiness?  Care to show how the current safeguards to protect people in marital relationships now will work, such as the dividing up of property when one individual in a marriage to more than one person would work?  How about custody of the children?



highwaystar101 said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:
pizzahut451 said:
highwaystar101 said:

Well, no. That was just my way of saying that I never bought into the Bible, or even the idea of a personal God, full stop.

I mean fair enough you can say "Oh it's allegorical, you aren't supposed to take it literally, you are supposed to see it as symbolic" and I can see where a non-literalist will see the flaw in my reasoning with the examples I've given. But some things that I find unbelievable have to be accepted under the definition of a practising Christian, such as a personal God being the sole creator of the Universe, or Jesus being the son of this personal God.

Literalists and non-literalists alike have to accept these as a pillars of Christianity, they are Universal, and these too are things that I find unbelievable.

may i ask why?

If you mean the first half of my last paragraph, it's because that's the way a theism works. People can be literalists or non-literalists on the same theism, but they still have the same core beliefs.

If you mean the latter half of my last paragraph, it's always struck me that the idea of a personal God is fairly absurd in my opinion. There's so many that I think none of them can be correct. I guess by that I fit the definition of "most people are atheists to all Gods but one, but some of us just go one God further".

That and I see the idea of a God at all being full of endless paradoxes.


But all people believe in the same God. (im talking about 3 major non-pagan religions) They just have diffrent cultures and diffrent book and worhsip him in the other way. Muslims call him ''Allah'', Christians simply call him God, I dont know how Jews call it lol. But its basiclly the same God. They just have diffrent stories

Do Hindus fit into this category? There are about one billion of them and they don't believe in the Abrahamic God. How about Buddhists? There's nearly half a billion Buddhists. How about people who follow traditional religions (Chinese traditional and African traditional)? There's another half a billion of them. How about those who consider themselves not to be part of organised religion? There's well over a billion of them.

Even using my rough figures you can see that there's 3billion people who don't believe in the God of Islam, Christianity and Judaism. They have many Gods, other Gods or no Gods.

Not all people believe in the same God, I think that the God followed by these three religions is one that has become most popular, most likely down solely due to the structure of the religions themselves.

And to be honest, iIf I wanted to be really pedantic I could also look at past populations and show you how other popular religions once had followers comparable (percentage wise) to the level that Islam  or Christianity do today. I can look at Greek gods, Norse gods, Roman Gods, Egyptian gods, etc... But I don't have the time.

...

Also, population sizes mean nothing.  A major God and a minor God have the same standing when you look at them objectively, regardless of the populations that follow them. Both gods would have equal standing.

For example, in the 17th century the vast majority of people (99.9% ) accepted the Geocentric model of the solar system, and only an extremely small minority accepted the Heliocentric model. The fact that 99% of people accepted the geocentric model didn't mean that it was correct, we now know that the tiny minority of people were correct. And belief in a God follows the same logic.


Is Buddisam even a religion? I always thought it was a lifestyle. How can people call it religion when there is no higher force or God in it? And i mentioned in my post that i was talking about 3 MAJOR religons ( major as in, they are the most succesful ones trought the world), so hinduisam is not included, since hindus live mostly in India. You might say ''but the only country with the jewish religion is Israel and the population isnt even that big threre'' and yes, that is true but there are a lot more jews outside of Israel than Hindus out of India (correct me if i am wrong on this one)... anyway, i wasnt disagreeing with your post or trying to start a debate, i was just saying that all 3 Abrahamic religions believe in the same God, they just call it diffrently and worhsip him in the other way



WessleWoggle said:
sapphi_snake said:
WessleWoggle said:

I quit christianity because satan promised me eternal life.

Aren't you the Buddha Maitreya?


I'm also the antichrist. 

http://www.satansrapture.com/maitreya.htm

you're joking right?



No joke. I am the Buddha Maitreya.