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Forums - General - Where would the world be right now if religion never existed?

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

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Calmador said:

Think Fallout 3

Well that is if Christianity the one true religion didn't exist... rest don't matter much.

No morals? Just survival of the fittest... hell. A heck load more wars too.... or constant war and problems... deadz everywhere... durgz everywhere.... choas... depression.... and bloodz everywhere

The assumption that a person can't be moral without God is foolish. No studies I've read have ever shown a correlation between atheism and crime for example, in-fact quite the opposite, but thats an argument for another day.



FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.



spdk1 said:
FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.

There are however some meta studies that have been done that point to Atheists being less likely to commit crime and being under-represented in gaols. Nevertheless Non-believers certainly aren't any worse, which runs against the conventional wisdom of many theists who assume that without God and some kind of absolutest morality you would commit more crime and end up doing what you like. Which simply doesn't seem to be accurate.



There is a LOT of hypocricy in this thread.

Some of you wishing for a uptopia of non-religion are blinded by anti religious sentiment and seem to be just as misguided as those you are labling as the creators of all human error.  There have been horrible attrocities done in the name of science as well, so it's foolish to believe that we'd live in a world of peace and love with no religion.  I'm not saying that religion is awesome in any way, but I get mad when one side demonizes the other without trying to even things out just a bit. 

 

Here are just of few of said attrocities:

 

Eugenics

Nazi Human expirimentation

Disease testing onblack people in Tuskeegee Alabama

Unit 731 - a Japanese biological weapons testing group that used human guinea pigs

 

Someone else would rise to power and we'd have similiar situations with nationalist, racist, sexist or other rhetoric rather than religious ones.  I could list political attrocities like the Soviet Farm reform, Slavery in America (and mosty other countries),Khmer Rouge killings etc as well, there will always be killing!



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FaRmLaNd said:
spdk1 said:
FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.

There are however some meta studies that have been done that point to Atheists being less likely to commit crime and being under-represented in gaols. Nevertheless Non-believers certainly aren't any worse, which runs against the conventional wisdom of many theists who assume that without God and some kind of absolutest morality you would commit more crime and end up doing what you like. Which simply doesn't seem to be accurate.

It's not that black and white though, take the following website:

 

http://www.kirainet.com/english/the-least-religious-countries/

 

According to these statistics, Sweden is the least religious country in the world, yet as the rate of non-religious tendencies rise it correlates to a raise in crime:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

 

These aren't murders, but there is a HUGE rate of petty crimes based on number of citizens.

 

Do I believe in said correlation, Not at all, but I was just trying to show how statistics can be manipulated to show ridiculous things such as a lack of religion leaning towards a lack of crime. 



spdk1 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
spdk1 said:
FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.

There are however some meta studies that have been done that point to Atheists being less likely to commit crime and being under-represented in gaols. Nevertheless Non-believers certainly aren't any worse, which runs against the conventional wisdom of many theists who assume that without God and some kind of absolutest morality you would commit more crime and end up doing what you like. Which simply doesn't seem to be accurate.

It's not that black and white though, take the following website:

 

http://www.kirainet.com/english/the-least-religious-countries/

 

According to these statistics, Sweden is the least religious country in the world, yet as the rate of non-religious tendencies rise it correlates to a raise in crime:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

 

These aren't murders, but there is a HUGE rate of petty crimes based on number of citizens.

 

Do I believe in said correlation, Not at all, but I was just trying to show how statistics can be manipulated to show ridiculous things such as a lack of religion leaning towards a lack of crime. 

You didn't take into account muslim immigrants, that are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
spdk1 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
spdk1 said:
FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.

There are however some meta studies that have been done that point to Atheists being less likely to commit crime and being under-represented in gaols. Nevertheless Non-believers certainly aren't any worse, which runs against the conventional wisdom of many theists who assume that without God and some kind of absolutest morality you would commit more crime and end up doing what you like. Which simply doesn't seem to be accurate.

It's not that black and white though, take the following website:

 

http://www.kirainet.com/english/the-least-religious-countries/

 

According to these statistics, Sweden is the least religious country in the world, yet as the rate of non-religious tendencies rise it correlates to a raise in crime:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

 

These aren't murders, but there is a HUGE rate of petty crimes based on number of citizens.

 

Do I believe in said correlation, Not at all, but I was just trying to show how statistics can be manipulated to show ridiculous things such as a lack of religion leaning towards a lack of crime. 

You didn't take into account muslim immigrants, that are overrepresented in Sweden's crime statistics.

In all honesty I threw that argument together to prove a point that you can cobble statistcs together too easily.  I know very little about Swedish immigration, but I googled around a little bit just now and found some articles on the subject.  Since I live in America there is a TON of "mexicans are ruining our country" sentiment going around now, and this seems pretty similiar.  In the case of Sweden, a lot of it seems like a xenophobic stance on the crimes being committed, for example this:

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/muslim_rape_wave_in_sweden/

is it a shocking headline- YES!  but does it reek of a "us vs. them" mentality - YES!

here is another article that talks about racism in Sweden:

http://www.thelocal.se/2363/20051025/

 

I still stand by my assumption that religion has little to do with it, and that poverty and a lack of education of the immigrants is probably more to blame.  This article seems to back me up:

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

 

Since I am just piecing together internet articles, If anyone has anything on the matter that could give me a better perspective that would be cool.  



@spdk1

Can't give you any likns at the momment, but I remember reading an article on how muslims are the most likely group to be dicriminated against in Sweden. The reason for this is most likely their inability to adapt to Swedeish culture, which is the proper thing to do when you're in a new country, but muslims somehow think this rule doesn't apply to them.

Here's an example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/08/world/main6186449.shtml

The hipocrisy of this is that muslims themselves have no respect for other people's cultures/religions. For example if a Christian woman were visiting in Saudi Arabia and refused to cover herself in public she'd most definately be jailed.

Immigrants are aslo generally likely to be poor and uneducated (especially those from 3rd world countries), and these social classes are the most liklely to commit crimes (especially petty ones like stealing).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

spdk1 said:
FaRmLaNd said:
spdk1 said:
FinalEvangelion said:

I lived in one of the least religious places in the world for 6 months - Japan - where by belief 2/3 do not believe in God.  While many will respond with "Buddhism" - it's more of a symbolic thing to most people for ceremonies.

 

It was quite wonderful.  The crime rate is one of the lowest in the world.  I could go to a bakery and save my table with my Laptop while I got my food.  Also, I never had to lock my door to my place.  I've been back in the US (very religious place) for a while, and I definitely can't say the same thing.

Not to nitpick, but since when are petty crimes such as breaking and entering and petty theft based on religious preference?  Had you stayed in an impoverished area, I'd imagine you'd have a different tale to tell.

There are however some meta studies that have been done that point to Atheists being less likely to commit crime and being under-represented in gaols. Nevertheless Non-believers certainly aren't any worse, which runs against the conventional wisdom of many theists who assume that without God and some kind of absolutest morality you would commit more crime and end up doing what you like. Which simply doesn't seem to be accurate.

It's not that black and white though, take the following website:

 

http://www.kirainet.com/english/the-least-religious-countries/

 

According to these statistics, Sweden is the least religious country in the world, yet as the rate of non-religious tendencies rise it correlates to a raise in crime:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Sweden

 

These aren't murders, but there is a HUGE rate of petty crimes based on number of citizens.

 

Do I believe in said correlation, Not at all, but I was just trying to show how statistics can be manipulated to show ridiculous things such as a lack of religion leaning towards a lack of crime. 

That may be true, but petty crime is not anywhere near as bad as murder for example. However the main point wasn't that Atheists are any better then Christians for example. The point I was making is that the assumption that without God one cannot be moral is simply bunk.