I think we're doing it again guys.

I think we are missing the point. We are viewing this from a hardcore gamers perspective.

So casuals don't care if things are broken? They will accept marketing BS more than the hardcore? I think it's the other way around; the hardcore chase after Achievements and collectors' editions and game hype. The casuals mostly need to see a product being fun and played in real life by someone else before they buy it. That's how the Wii sold - people see their friends having fun with it when at their house.

The issue: Kinect doesn't work right. It's not precise. It has latency. It might require very specific conditions to even turn on for most games. IE: Standing, lighting, space requirements.

I don't think it matters even in the slightest.

Why, you may ask? Well, ladies and gentlement, Kinect, and to a much lesser extent Move, is not a product that core gamers are supposed to want to buy. Just look at the games. Dance games, ball bouncing games, hardcore games? None that interest me. In fact, the entire Kinect E3 presser was pretty much casual dedicated. So, let's examine what that implies:

The Kart racing demo, according to most accounts, worked a lot less well than MKWii. So if the Wii can be considered broken, Kinect is worse.

The Wii: has never really "worked right." When we first saw the trailers for Red Steel we were thinking 1:1 motion, precision, greatness. Right now, the Wii has pretty unimpressive precision.

True, but it doesn't stop the games being fun. Kinect looks so broken to me that it won't even look fun in real life (not trailers/conferences)

It really doesn't have 1:1 like we imagined it even with WM , and it has tons and tons of missed motion control attempts per gaming session. Just look at the Zelda portion of Nintendo's presser this year.

You mean, the Zelda game which absolutely everyone who tried it on the showfloor said worked perfectly, and that it didn't work on stage only because of wireless inteference just like the iPhone 4 launch conference the week before.

That, to me, is what the Wii acts like in reality, even if there was some issue with their setup. Game developers are forced to stick with the most basic movements to combat the imprecise controls. It's just not very precise and it doesn't really "work right." It was and is a great idea, but its value lies more in its ability to interest consumers and to present a new experience, than it does in actual core gameplay.

Does Kinect offer more value than the Wii? Not on price, certainly. Not in control fidelity as you've said. In experience it offers the same games as Wii (fitness, sports, party). The only new thing where Kinect works better is Just Dance. So is it more fun? Because if it isn't then it offers no competition to the Wii.

Obviously, the Wii is a huge success with casuals and core gamers(however I'd argue that though the Wii itself is a coregamer success, the Wii-Mote itself is a failure with coregamers. It's interesting that we so rarely seperate the two). You'd be hard pressed to find a true exclusively casual gamer who would even know what 1:1 meant.

They would, however, understand what they WANT - "I want the sword to move like I move the Wiimote". You'd be hard pressed to find a casual gamer who didn't want that.

They are, generally, blessedly ignorant of electronics, and buy the Wii because it has games that appeal to them, and a differentiating factor to get their attention and grab their interest(I hesitate to use the term gimmick because it implies the popularity wouldn't have longevity, which it obviously has, though I would also argue that said implication is a misunderstanding as I define a gimmick without longevity-in-popularity as a fad).

The Kinect offers no new experiences over the Wii, except Just Dance. However it costs more, supports fewer players, is starting from a much smaller installed base. How will it be successful?

THAT is what the Kinect is. It's a new thing to grab the public-casual interest. It has games they can play. It is new and different. The specifics don't matter to them. They would never know the difference. To them, it's a toy. They are barely invested in it. To us, it's a way of life.

What's so new about it?

I think there is one reason why Kinect will eventually best Move. Move isn't a new thing meant to grab the public-casual interest. Move is a new version of an existing thing meant to improve upon the original.

I agree.

The Kinect is not meant for us. We aren't supposed to be impressed by our token Star Wars game, and we shouldn't even care about the device in the first place, anymore than we should care about Titanic 2. We went into this under a misassumption, which was, "Because Microsoft is releasing it, it is meant to appeal to core gamers too!" This device is meant for the casual gamer.

And in the pure-casual market space, it should be compared to the Wii as a yardstick. It comes off worse except for Just Dance. Even if they tie in features and quality, Wii wins due to 70m install base.

The kind that would play standing up in a bright room even if they didn't have to. The kind that wants to play Dancing Fever instead of Gears of War. The kind that would be shocked to hear cursing in a game. I don't think they care if the machine is a little less precise than it was in their dreams, because it offers them a new and different experience and that is what they will buy it for.

That is also why non-gaming publications will praise the machine, while gaming publications will despise it...just like the Wii-Mote before it.

Yeah, and those media outlets praised Microsoft Surface as a revolution. And Vista. And Zune. They love Microsoft whatever happens. But sales are the real test, and I'll bet they'll spike hugely on Week 1 and perform abysmally thereafter.

I know this is a little off topic but great controller? XBL innovative? They copied the ps3 controller (or rather ps2) then changed it around enough to avoid getting sued and claimed it was better or more ergonomic or whatever which was just pure marketing BS as for XBL being innovative, it was not maybe on xbox original it was but the same thing can't be innovative twice in a row 

19 posts and lots of those are anti 360.  Keep up the good work mate!  You fit right in around here...

On topic, as long as the Kinect is fun to play and the controls aren't broken enough that it takes you out of the "experience" it will do fine.

When I give Kinect a try to be honest I don't expect it to be perfect.  From all of the demos I have seen most people seem to be enjoying theirselves and having fun.  If for some reason they aren't being picked up by the device or it has a little lag doesn't seem to bring them out of the devises fun factor.  This is what I will be judging it on.

Hopefully the device will continue to develop into something that has little to no flaws in it.  Microsoft will continue to work on it and I am certain that eventually they will get it right with future updates either way.

19 posts and lots of those are anti 360.  Keep up the good work mate!  You fit right in around here...

On topic, as long as the Kinect is fun to play and the controls aren't broken enough that it takes you out of the "experience" it will do fine.

When I give Kinect a try to be honest I don't expect it to be perfect.  From all of the demos I have seen most people seem to be enjoying theirselves and having fun.  If for some reason they aren't being picked up by the device or it has a little lag doesn't seem to bring them out of the devises fun factor.  This is what I will be judging it on.

Hopefully the device will continue to develop into something that has little to no flaws in it.  Microsoft will continue to work on it and I am certain that eventually they will get it right with future updates either way.

"Why, you may ask? Well, ladies and gentlement, Kinect, and to a much lesser extent Move, is not a product that core gamers are supposed to want to buy. Just look at the games."

How is Playstation Move not a product that core gamer's are supposed to want to buy?

if you go by the Software release for each platform, it's  very clear that Sony's target is just as much for the Core as it is for the Casual, which is really just to target Gamer's in general.

All Types of Gamer's.

That is if you look at the game's you will see the release of the games for both the Playstation Move and the Microsoft Kinect are not aligned to launce to target the same audiance.

Playstation Move is aligned to Target the Core to Buy it , just as much as the casual.

For people who don't already have a 360, pricing point will be a factor and will turn a lot of these "casuals" off.

In another words , it's like the electronic cigarette , it does not matter if it works just as long as it sells more than it's production cost. Hopefully they will sell enough of the product before the average person finds out it's nothing but junk.  Mircosoft wants to make money. What gamer does not know this?