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Those software numbers are quite interesting for the 360. It really does seem like a great deal of those xbox360s went to people who already owned a 360 from before.

Edit: Noth trying to say thos 360 sales are bad, they are amazing. But you can't deny that those software numbers bring some intresting perspective.



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Mummelmann said:
lolzmahballz said:

Why is everyone (or maybe it's just the nintendo fans) downplaying/rejecting the idea of a wii price cut does it somehow benefit you to have the wii remain at $200 dollars.... I personally do not own a wii however as a former nintendo console owner I have interest in the wii  (I love me some Donkey Kong >.<) however I also know for a fact I will never buy one at its current price point and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. If it was droped to $150 there is a very high chance of me picking one up this fall when donkey kong is released.

As far as the new 360's sales go give it time...it just came out of course it's gonna be selling good did any one honestly expect it not to? wait a month and see where it settles at, that'll tell you how good of a boost it gave to sales.


Same thing happened last year. Everyone in here said Nintendo would not cut the price, it was not needed and would not happen. Nintendo themselves said thay they would not cut the price and that it was doing great regardless. Malstrom wrote about how Nintendo would be showing weakness if they lowered their price, talked about the high demand and how silly the people who imagined that the Wii would have its price cut, were.

 

Did that really happen?  :D I've read of this malestrom-guy and he seems like a total clown. Any links for those posts?  I could really use a laugh.



postofficebuddy said:
Mummelmann said:
lolzmahballz said:

Why is everyone (or maybe it's just the nintendo fans) downplaying/rejecting the idea of a wii price cut does it somehow benefit you to have the wii remain at $200 dollars.... I personally do not own a wii however as a former nintendo console owner I have interest in the wii  (I love me some Donkey Kong >.<) however I also know for a fact I will never buy one at its current price point and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. If it was droped to $150 there is a very high chance of me picking one up this fall when donkey kong is released.

As far as the new 360's sales go give it time...it just came out of course it's gonna be selling good did any one honestly expect it not to? wait a month and see where it settles at, that'll tell you how good of a boost it gave to sales.


Same thing happened last year. Everyone in here said Nintendo would not cut the price, it was not needed and would not happen. Nintendo themselves said thay they would not cut the price and that it was doing great regardless. Malstrom wrote about how Nintendo would be showing weakness if they lowered their price, talked about the high demand and how silly the people who imagined that the Wii would have its price cut, were.

What happened? They cut the price in the fall/winter. Utter silence. It could happen again, let's not get ahead of ourselves and say it can't happen. Cutting the price to 150$ right before the holidays might cause another record December (I say might because the price cut alone actually didn't make that much of a difference last year until NSMBWii released) and would be a brilliant move on Nintendo's part. Even they need to pull some tricks out of their bag to maintain momentum.


Normally I would agree with you but you're forgetting one thing. Even with how unrealistic it was at the time Ninty were still shooting for 26 million that year. They didn't lower their projection to 20 million until a month later. They're already aiming low this year with 18 million. Unless that's some sort of marketing ploy and they intend to smash through it I don't see them cutting the price, especially with the recent bundling of WSR. They probably think that the current line-up is good enough to get them within eye-sight of last year's Christmas because they're going to lose a lot in the lead-up to it. And Q1 will likely be lower as well since the post-holiday momentum won't be quite as strong as this year, especially with GT5 likely sucking all the air out of EMEAA.

Good point, they did lower their projection. People said they were being overly conservative this time around with their fiscal projection, I say they're just being realistic, especially if they don't intend to lower the price.

Edit; antabus; you'll find those Malstrom articles of you search around. He used to be a breath of fresh air but now he truly is s clown and his record is stuck on repeat. Nowadays he likes to spend his time responding to cranky e-mails from intellectually inferior people (no doubt in order to seem extra smart).



Reasonable said:
WilliamWatts said:


How do we know? From what I remember much of the software sales listed are simply based off regression and various other statistical tools from Brett. If he hasn't updated his statistics program then the software sales will carry on as far as we are concerned as if nothing has happened. You're basing this on software totals which may or may not be accurate. The safest thing to do is to say nothing and think nothing of it until you're certain that the software sales presented on a weekly basis are representative. I don't think you could say with even a reasonable margin of error that the software sales truly relfect what the change in the market is, especially when that change would be riding in the typical 15% or so margin of error.

We don't know for sure, which was my point, but unless they're totall generating fake numbers Brett's tools should be taking most recent data (which they apparently get) and it's pretty easy (and standard) to have the algorithms skew to any major shifts immediately apparent in the data.  Hence, if SW was seeing a spike it would be in their sample data and it should be extrapolated out using their algorithm.

After all, how the heck are they picking up the HW spike?  By your logic they wouldn't have as they'd follow the previous trend.  No, if they can pick up the HW spike they can pick up a SW spike.

Besides, there's plenty of evidence there is a fair bit of re-buying.  On all major UK online sites I checked plus some stores the 360 HDD transfer kits were also spiking massively with the 360s - that has to be a re-buy, a new customer isn't going to buy a transfer kit with their brand new and only 360.  Only existing 360 owners will want a transfer kit.

Also, logically you can see from the specs that the 360s will attract re-buys.

Even a small sample of stores which is what Vgchartz likely has access to is able to give a reasonably consistant statistical sampling when you're dealing with a few SKUs of hardware. What it cannot do is give the whole story in regards to software sales. I know for a fact that Brett has admitted that much of the software under a certain level of sales is difficult to track accurately and unlike hardware we don't have shipment figures coming out every 3 months to help correct for inaccuracies. Software itself isn't consistant, it varies from region to region in regards to taste and certainly doesn't follow anything like a normal distribution like you would see more with hardware. We have seen Vgchartz out by a factor of 2:1 over data released by publishers.

Even with the increased numbers of transfer units sold, do we have an attach rate of transfer kits vs Xbox 360s sold? Its simply a guess, just as the number of consoles sold / given away would also be a guess. Noone is doubting that people are rebuying the console. The real questions are in relation to the proportion sold to current owners, the proportion of older 360s sold onto the used market or given away from the people rebuying consoles and the number of new owners buying the console along with the effects of this event on the software market for existing owners who have rebought consoles.

What im saying is that the software sales aren't accurate enough to tell us what is happening in the market. I remember the PS3 slim came out and people stated that because the software didn't seem to increase that current PS3 owners were buying the console. The same is happening here within a similar timespan. Its simply too early to cast judgement even though that is tempting in itself.



WilliamWatts said:
Reasonable said:
WilliamWatts said:

Even a small sample of stores which is what Vgchartz likely has access to is able to give a reasonably consistant statistical sampling when you're dealing with a few SKUs of hardware. What it cannot do is give the whole story in regards to software sales. I know for a fact that Brett has admitted that much of the software under a certain level of sales is difficult to track accurately and unlike hardware we don't have shipment figures coming out every 3 months to help correct for inaccuracies. Software itself isn't consistant, it varies from region to region in regards to taste and certainly doesn't follow anything like a normal distribution like you would see more with hardware. We have seen Vgchartz out by a factor of 2:1 over data released by publishers.

Even with the increased numbers of transfer units sold, do we have an attach rate of transfer kits vs Xbox 360s sold? Its simply a guess, just as the number of consoles sold / given away would also be a guess. Noone is doubting that people are rebuying the console. The real questions are in relation to the proportion sold to current owners, the proportion of older 360s sold onto the used market or given away from the people rebuying consoles and the number of new owners buying the console along with the effects of this event on the software market for existing owners who have rebought consoles.

What im saying is that the software sales aren't accurate enough to tell us what is happening in the market. I remember the PS3 slim came out and people stated that because the software didn't seem to increase that current PS3 owners were buying the console. The same is happening here within a similar timespan. Its simply too early to cast judgement even though that is tempting in itself.

Interesting, I didn't realize there was such a gulf between the sample set for HW and SW as that implies only bigger hits will register with any measure of accuracy.

I see we're agreeing anyway that the issue is we know some of what must be going on, but not the magnitude or detailed pattern.

I'm personally taking the rise in HDD transfer kits more of a sign than the SW as in addition there are so many routes to SW - for example buying a new 360s but buying older, classic titles second hand to save money, or using all your money on the HW and not buying much SW for a few weeks or months.

In the end, as always, things won't be that clear until a few weeks pass and we see how things settle post the spike.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Why are people assuming that if there isn't a bump in software sales then there aren't new console owners? If I'm a new owner why should I purchase a new full priced game when I have a whole library of AAA games in the bargain bin which I haven't played? I fail to see the logic...



askel50 said:

Why are people assuming that if there isn't a bump in software sales then there aren't new console owners? If I'm a new owner why should I purchase a new full priced game when I have a whole library of AAA games in the bargain bin which I haven't played? I fail to see the logic...

So, used games aren't tracked, and that explains the lack of sales spike for software, because people buy used?



richardhutnik said:
askel50 said:

Why are people assuming that if there isn't a bump in software sales then there aren't new console owners? If I'm a new owner why should I purchase a new full priced game when I have a whole library of AAA games in the bargain bin which I haven't played? I fail to see the logic...

So, used games aren't tracked, and that explains the lack of sales spike for software, because people buy used?

I think he meant that those bargain bin games are much harder to track because of the low sales numbers. I would say it is almost impossible to get a good number on those titles. Selection varies from store to store and so on.



trestres said:

Nintendo will not be able to go back to the old numbers, mainly because Wii is already 4 years old and they are already shifting resources to the 3DS and their new home console (They need to have SW ready, and they can't trust 3rd party devs). They can't do it on their own and since 3rd party devs already decided long ago that Wii was not worth their best efforts, Wii will continue to go down in sales. I'm expecting a new home console by Holiday's 2011 in Japan, with the West getting it before Q1 2012 ends.


Is that a joke?

They are doing it on their own. 

And as for the 360 sales...good for MS I like american industries being succesful I hope it continues

Looking forward to getting one



richardhutnik said:
askel50 said:

Why are people assuming that if there isn't a bump in software sales then there aren't new console owners? If I'm a new owner why should I purchase a new full priced game when I have a whole library of AAA games in the bargain bin which I haven't played? I fail to see the logic...

So, used games aren't tracked, and that explains the lack of sales spike for software, because people buy used?

Also you have to consider online purchases as well. Say for instance $700M in online sales for the last financial year. 4/7ths of that game content. @ $42 average sale price for retail games, essentially thats another 10M sales per year give or take... which averages out at about 200,000 retail purchases per week. Thats just a rough example, but thats another area which isn't tracked either. Not everything which isn't counted doesn't count.