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Forums - General - Why don't you believe in a god?

trestres said:
 


I'm basing myself on what science has said. The universe has boundaries, the universe is expanding.
Plus I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you. Beings outside the universe would be immaterial, infinite, atemporal, undivisable. It's impossible to understand since we are in a universe where matter and time are part of our lives. But the fact that matter or time cannot exist by their own, means there's something that has been the source for it. You can't get something out of nothing, that's one of the basic principles of logic.

Several points here. Firstly I don't believe you can't get something out of nothing is a logical axiom, for one thing it relies on causality (everything must have something else as a cause) which is completely linked to time and as such probably does not exist outside of the universe (where time probably doesn't exist)

Secondly what reason do you have to believe that logic itself exists outside of the universe?

Thirdly I believe it is another false dichotomy to assume that the choices are God created the universe or the universe came from nothing. For example Roger Penrose has recently come up with a mathematical model showing that new universes could come about when old universes essentially die.

 

Double post sorry. Something weird with the edit button.



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I used to believe in "God" because of my Christian background. After a crisis of faith due to life I pretty much left the idea. Now that i'm older. I firmly believe that the human mind cannot accurately define "God" and have made grave mistakes to what god is. Generally filled with bad concepts over the years to back political and personal agendas that are now holy in practice.

My personal view of God is not one defined in the Bible or other religious texts. Actually I wouldn't even use the term God. To me explanation as that I don't believe that God is more Divine that we are.



Squilliam: On Vgcharts its a commonly accepted practice to twist the bounds of plausibility in order to support your argument or agenda so I think its pretty cool that this gives me the precedent to say whatever I damn well please.

Armads said:
Smidlee said:
Armads said:
 

Dark matter is not "nothing" as you called it, just because we don't fully understand it doesn't make it not there.

 LOL . "god" matter works in mysterious ways , who can know them?

You realize people were saying the same thing about antimatter until it was isolated.  Dark matter isn't a matter of faith brought upon by tradition and indoctrination, it was a conclusion that was came to through the product of physics research.

In another words people believe in dark matter because of the tradition and indoctrination of the Big Bang Theory. Thus they believe something without direct evidence yet still have sound reason to believe in it's existance more than unicorns and vampires. 



i realy can't answer that. there are to many things that support of a god but there are things that doesn't.



Smidlee said:
Armads said:
Smidlee said:
Armads said:
 

Dark matter is not "nothing" as you called it, just because we don't fully understand it doesn't make it not there.

 LOL . "god" matter works in mysterious ways , who can know them?

You realize people were saying the same thing about antimatter until it was isolated.  Dark matter isn't a matter of faith brought upon by tradition and indoctrination, it was a conclusion that was came to through the product of physics research.

In another words people believe in dark matter because of the tradition and indoctrination of the Big Bang Theory. Thus they believe something without direct evidence yet still have sound reason to believe in it's existance more than unicorns and vampires. 

Please, this response shows you have really no idea what you are talking about at all.  There is no indoctrination with the big bang, people aren't told to simply believe something without question, the big bang is taught but that is not the same as indoctrination.  The difference is that the science is explained and that it follows the scientific method of (wikipedia'd)

  1. Define the question
  2. Gather information and resources (observe)
  3. Form hypothesis
  4. Perform experiment and collect data
  5. Analyze data
  6. Interpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
  7. Publish results
  8. Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

It's not just the big bang exists, believe it, if you don't you're wrong.  There are plenty of books out there and people doing lectures on the information surrounding the big bang (because there is a wealth of information about the event that is growing constantly.)  To make the statement that science is forcing upon people as a dogma is ludicrous to the point of self-mockery.  Secondly people don't believe in dark matter because they believe in the big bang, dark matters existence is inferred because of gravitational effects on visible matter and background radiation that could not be caused by the matter we can detect.  Or in other words we see the effect but not the cause but must assume that the cause exists due to the observance of an effect.  It's like if we saw a bright light but couldn't see where it was coming from, we know something is creating it because we see the light, just because we don't have the tools to penetrate the light and observe the source does not mean it does not exist.

 

Here's a little podcast talking about dark matter http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=000DD7DD-B1DF-14FD-B1DF83414B7F00FF

It's a lot less blind faith and a lot more solid physics than you seem to think, yes we have not isolated and directly observed dark matter.  But we know it exists because of mass and gravitational measurements, unless of course you can provide a different solution to the problem of this mysterious amount of gravity and mass that appears out of nowhere.



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Smidlee said:
Armads said:
Smidlee said:
Armads said:
 

Dark matter is not "nothing" as you called it, just because we don't fully understand it doesn't make it not there.

 LOL . "god" matter works in mysterious ways , who can know them?

You realize people were saying the same thing about antimatter until it was isolated.  Dark matter isn't a matter of faith brought upon by tradition and indoctrination, it was a conclusion that was came to through the product of physics research.

In another words people believe in dark matter because of the tradition and indoctrination of the Big Bang Theory. Thus they believe something without direct evidence yet still have sound reason to believe in it's existance more than unicorns and vampires. 

Is there indirect evidence of unicorns or vampires? No.

Is there indirect evidence of dark matter? Yes.

 

Just because something has not been directly observed does not mean that there is no evidence for its existence. A great example of this is black holes. Dark matter has been indirectly observed through its effects on the universe.

 

Also the big bang theory has plenty of evidence backing it up, it's not some religious text like you're making it out to be.



Rath said:
trestres said:
 


I'm basing myself on what science has said. The universe has boundaries, the universe is expanding.
Plus I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you. Beings outside the universe would be immaterial, infinite, atemporal, undivisable. It's impossible to understand since we are in a universe where matter and time are part of our lives. But the fact that matter or time cannot exist by their own, means there's something that has been the source for it. You can't get something out of nothing, that's one of the basic principles of logic.

Several points here. Firstly I don't believe you can't get something out of nothing is a logical axiom, for one thing it relies on causality (everything must have something else as a cause) which is completely linked to time and as such probably does not exist outside of the universe (where time probably doesn't exist)

Secondly what reason do you have to believe that logic itself exists outside of the universe?

Thirdly I believe it is another false dichotomy to assume that the choices are God created the universe or the universe came from nothing. For example Roger Penrose has recently come up with a mathematical model showing that new universes could come about when old universes essentially die.

 

Double post sorry. Something weird with the edit button.


There's no way matter, time and space can be created out of nothing if there's no intervention of an outer force capable of creating, of giving existence. By nothing I mean no preexistent matter, time or space. There has to be something that's the cause of everything that precedes it, the first uncaused cause.

If logic doesn't exist outside the universe, then nothing has a meaning. We shouldn't be debating anything because there would never be a logic answer outside our universe and there's now way our universe exists purely by chance. There needs to be logic as a universal thing or theories about our universe would only be valid inside it, and our universe isn't eternal, it had a begining, so that would mean we cannot ever find the answer.

The third point puts matter as the eternal thing. What about the immaterial beings, that theory is completely denying espiritual beings like humans, and we can by the use of reason reach the conclusion that there are espiritual beings. In the end, this is a circular and endless debate and we cannot answer anything because it's unreachable for any human so far. It's kinda sad to know no one will be able to properly answer the biggest questions, I know I will die without knowing the answer.

The questions are: What's the origin of the Universe? What's the origin of Life? What's the origin of Intelligent Life?

It's nice to debate about these topics, but when all the answers we hear can't be proven empirically, then it's useless. We cannot find the answers by ourselves, that's why I believe there's a superior being who at least knows these answers, that's God for me.



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Because I don't have enough self belief.



 

 

Lol i just cant believe people dont believe in anything, you telling me you can look at the human body and many different things on this planet and think there is no design behind it. I can understand different religions having trouble in figuring out which is true and which is not but I cannot understand the people whom think there is nothing. I’m very open minded but telling me there is no intelligent design is unacceptable. Look up thyroids, your liver, any internal part of your body and tell me shit like that just happens, I’m pretty sure there would be no life on this planet if the big bang just happened, and who created the big bang. Another question would be who created God but I cant answer any of this. So ill say we will all see when we die case closed



iBlah said:

Because I don't have enough self belief.


:P



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

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