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Forums - General - Inception was AMAZING (spoilers)

darthdevidem01 said:
Reasonable said:
Packie said:

I can't believe how much I loved this film. This IS Nolan's best film. Hell, I saw this movie yesterday and I still can't stop thinking about it. Bravo to Nolan!

Question to anyone who understood the film entirely. How the heck did Cobb rescue Saito in the dream? I still didn't get how he was able to reach him in the end.


TBH that's open to interpretation.  For example, what if the whole film is Cobb's dream (possible and doesn't go against anything shown).  In that case there was no rescue.  It was just another part of Cobb's own dream.

But I swear in the ending, when he rolls that thingy on the table before going to finally meet his kids that spinning thing was just about to fall before they just end the movie

so I don't think the whole movie was Cobb's dream...


Check my earlier post.  Note that after he wakes up on the plane Cobb is never shown speaking to anyone, just catching their eye.

The film toys, deliberately, with the idea that when Cobb wakes up on the plane that's the first time he is actually awake, the whole preceeding sequence was a dream, he walks through customs catching the eye of a few of his fellow first class passangers, then greets his kids and goes home.  In which case of course the top would wobble as only that part was real.

Alternatively, I'd note the concept the top will always spin in a dream is false (no reason why it couldn't be dreamt of as ceasing to spin and, more importantly, that Totem was Mal's and Cobb using it is breaking the rule of something only you know over anyone else.

Note that we're never shown nor told what was really Cobb's own Totem before he apparently made Mal's Totem his own.

It's interesting to note that by walking away at the end it implies Cobb may no longer care to see the results of the Totem - finally embracing a false but desirable dream life - or that he's abandoning Mal's Totem and moving on, or both combined.

It could also imlpy his children's faces are his own Totem - which I like as an idea but I think it fails the goal they are uniquely known to him.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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darthdevidem01 said:
Reasonable said:
Packie said:

I can't believe how much I loved this film. This IS Nolan's best film. Hell, I saw this movie yesterday and I still can't stop thinking about it. Bravo to Nolan!

Question to anyone who understood the film entirely. How the heck did Cobb rescue Saito in the dream? I still didn't get how he was able to reach him in the end.


TBH that's open to interpretation.  For example, what if the whole film is Cobb's dream (possible and doesn't go against anything shown).  In that case there was no rescue.  It was just another part of Cobb's own dream.

But I swear in the ending, when he rolls that thingy on the table before going to finally meet his kids that spinning thing was just about to fall before they just end the movie

so I don't think the whole movie was Cobb's dream...

Here's my theory:

As Reasonable said, Cobb was indeed living in a dream world the whole time. I didn't believe the whole "it was all a dream" theory until I thought about couple of scenes that did prove that Cobb wasn't in the real world. Remember how Cobb is constantly being chased in the real world by faceless corporate drones just like how they were constantly being chased by the sub-concious security in the dream world. It also bothered me how conveniantly saito knew Cobb's location and helped him escape the corporate henchmen, how did he know Cobb's exact location? that's only possible in a dream. There was also a scene were Cobb gets stuck between two buildings as he was trying to escape the corporate henchmen before saito found him. You see Cobb is trying to struggle to squeeze himself out of the narrow way. The whole scene felt claustrophobic for Cobb, I see it as a classic nightmarish imagery that proves that he was in a dream. But maybe Im wrong, that's how I interpreted it.



Reasonable said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Reasonable said:
Packie said:

I can't believe how much I loved this film. This IS Nolan's best film. Hell, I saw this movie yesterday and I still can't stop thinking about it. Bravo to Nolan!

Question to anyone who understood the film entirely. How the heck did Cobb rescue Saito in the dream? I still didn't get how he was able to reach him in the end.


TBH that's open to interpretation.  For example, what if the whole film is Cobb's dream (possible and doesn't go against anything shown).  In that case there was no rescue.  It was just another part of Cobb's own dream.

But I swear in the ending, when he rolls that thingy on the table before going to finally meet his kids that spinning thing was just about to fall before they just end the movie

so I don't think the whole movie was Cobb's dream...


Check my earlier post.  Note that after he wakes up on the plane Cobb is never shown speaking to anyone, just catching their eye.

The film toys, deliberately, with the idea that when Cobb wakes up on the plane that's the first time he is actually awake, the whole preceeding sequence was a dream, he walks through customs catching the eye of a few of his fellow first class passangers, then greets his kids and goes home.  In which case of course the top would wobble as only that part was real.

Alternatively, I'd note the concept the top will always spin in a dream is false (no reason why it couldn't be dreamt of as ceasing to spin and, more importantly, that Totem was Mal's and Cobb using it is breaking the rule of something only you know over anyone else.

Note that we're never shown nor told what was really Cobb's own Totem before he apparently made Mal's Totem his own.

It's interesting to note that by walking away at the end it implies Cobb may no longer care to see the results of the Totem - finally embracing a false but desirable dream life - or that he's abandoning Mal's Totem and moving on, or both combined.

It could also imlpy his children's faces are his own Totem - which I like as an idea but I think it fails the goal they are uniquely known to him.

 

Very interesting. I did think they didn't speak because they didn't wanna make the guy they were hired to carry out inception in suspicious. They had to still act like they were complete strangers to each other.

Also I think it showed Saito just waking up after Cobb does and Saito puts his hand to where he got injured in the dream (I think this happens..saw it a week ago, can't exactly remember)....but Saito could have had his own independent dream where he got hurt.

@packie

True the bit where Saito suddenly got to him in that place was very suspicious! 

But then again knowing Saito, and the kind of power that they showed he had in terms of "connections with important people", it might not be impossible to believe that Saito was keeping a track on Cobb through spies.

Its good the film is making us think after the end credits roll, we hardly get films that do this.

EDIT: argh I need to see this movie again to explore the concepts some people in this thread are throwing out, there's some things I didn't notice. But i never see a movie twice in theatres. (only seen 2 movies more than once in theatres)



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Packie said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Reasonable said:
Packie said:

I can't believe how much I loved this film. This IS Nolan's best film. Hell, I saw this movie yesterday and I still can't stop thinking about it. Bravo to Nolan!

Question to anyone who understood the film entirely. How the heck did Cobb rescue Saito in the dream? I still didn't get how he was able to reach him in the end.


TBH that's open to interpretation.  For example, what if the whole film is Cobb's dream (possible and doesn't go against anything shown).  In that case there was no rescue.  It was just another part of Cobb's own dream.

But I swear in the ending, when he rolls that thingy on the table before going to finally meet his kids that spinning thing was just about to fall before they just end the movie

so I don't think the whole movie was Cobb's dream...

Here's my theory:

As Reasonable said, Cobb was indeed living in a dream world the whole time. I didn't believe the whole "it was all a dream" theory until I thought about couple of scenes that did prove that Cobb wasn't in the real world. Remember how Cobb is constantly being chased in the real world by faceless corporate drones just like how they were constantly being chased by the sub-concious security in the dream world. It also bothered me how conveniantly saito knew Cobb's location and helped him escape the corporate henchmen, how did he know Cobb's exact location? that's only possible in a dream. There was also a scene were Cobb gets stuck between two buildings as he was trying to escape the corporate henchmen before saito found him. You see Cobb is trying to struggle to squeeze himself out of the narrow way. The whole scene felt claustrophobic for Cobb, I see it as a classic nightmarish imagery that proves that he was in a dream. But maybe Im wrong, that's how I interpreted it.

The real world chase and the narrow alley represent perhaps one of the biggest he's still dreaming suggestions.  The alley in particular is presented as classic dream anxiety and paranoia.  Saito being right there instead of in some office somewhere (in fact why is Saito always in a risky position for most of the film vs a cushy office?) is also classic dream logic.

I note also the dialogue where Cobb explicitly notes that dreams you find yourself abruptly somewhere without any real memory of how you got there - and from the very first scene of the movie, until Cobb wakes on the plane (if he does!) we are almost always dropped into the middle of the action without any real connection.

Ah.  I love these kinds of films.  I'm still debating to this day what parts of Mullholand Drive are real, which are a fantasy and what it all means.

I'm just glad to see it's been a big success.  I'm not against mindless fun so long as there is more on offer than just mindless fun when you want something more meaty.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Soriku said:

Only things I didn't understand was what was up with the riot in the beginning of the film; that seemed kinda random. And also why there was gravity in level 3 (snow area) in the dreams but not in level 2 (hotel). I know the van falling caused the no gravity thing in level 2, but why not the same for level 3? Does that mean that the environment in a dream only affects things one level up, not two or more?

I don't remember the fine details of the beginning anymore, but I would think that the riot in the beginning would be the main dreamer's "antibodies". I don't think there is anything random in this movie , I think each and every scene was carefully considered. 

As to gravity in the snow area, the further removed you are from a level, the less effect it has. There WAS the avalanche in this level, maybe it depends how strong the occurence is as far as whether and how it manifests to some extent more than a level down or not.



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Soriku said:

Oh wait, now that I remember that riot was in the dream. And yeah, forgot about the avalanche though wasn't that when the van hit the water? I don't really remember. It might be just that environmental effects don't go 2 levels deep.

I think the avalanche was before the van hit the water, but I am not sure either, we'll have to wait for someone who either remembers this part better or has seen the movie twice...



Currently Playing: Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked, Professor Layton and the Curious Village

Anticipating: Xenoblade, The Last Story, Mario Kart 7, Rayman Origins, Zelda SS, Crush3D, Tales of the Abyss 3DS, MGS:Snake Eater 3DS, RE:Revelations, Time Travellers, Professor Layton vs. Ace Attorney, Luigi's Mansion 2, MH TriG, DQ Monsters, Heroes of Ruin

bmmb1 said:
Soriku said:

Only things I didn't understand was what was up with the riot in the beginning of the film; that seemed kinda random. And also why there was gravity in level 3 (snow area) in the dreams but not in level 2 (hotel). I know the van falling caused the no gravity thing in level 2, but why not the same for level 3? Does that mean that the environment in a dream only affects things one level up, not two or more?

I don't remember the fine details of the beginning anymore, but I would think that the riot in the beginning would be the main dreamer's "antibodies". I don't think there is anything random in this movie , I think each and every scene was carefully considered. 

As to gravity in the snow area, the further removed you are from a level, the less effect it has. There WAS the avalanche in this level, maybe it depends how strong the occurence is as far as whether and how it manifests to some extent more than a level down or not.

The reasoning seemed to be Arthur's dream (the hotel) would be affected directly by his environment one level up whereas the snow level, being the dream of someone in Arthur's level, was not.

I think there was a potential flaw here as if Arthur's dream level is affected by the location of his body then given the snow level is based on someone dreaming in Arthur's dream who is weightless I'm not sure the effect shouldn't also have been passed down.

But, it's made up rules and as defined they do cover the idea of the snow level being one level further away from the van dream and therefore outside its direct influence.

The crowd as noted by others was in a dream and therefore easy to explain as defenses to the dreamers being present much as later the dreamers are attacked almost right away in Fischer's case.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

well, I read the whole thread ...

Firstly, let me say I m not that "wowed" by "Inception" because I have the feeling it is so complictaed that there is plenty of "holes" in the plot everywhere but because we have no time to check these, we have the impression "it is best movie ever !" ala MGS4 / X-files ... Neverthless, after reading this thread I m starting to think that those plots could be filled and, in this case ... big respect to Nolan (note to Nolan : the Dark Night is WAY overrated ... just saying lol)

Secondly, I have an important issue with the "oniric" part of the movie : it is so NOT oniric !!! All the action sequence, from their classic content to the classic way they were take, could have been in the "A-team movie", there was nothing originality despite most of these taking place ... in a dream !! Outside the ground morphing and the "train from nowhere" there was absolutely nothing original. It was just "pan-pan" all the time with a CoD type mission.
I, BY NO MEAN, wanted something "overbadass" but I expected to be more surprise to say the very least ... 
Example : level in the future with robotic guard, level in the far west with cowboys, level in UK with scotch languard chasing the heroes, medieval japan.
Also, the limb were a complete fail : 2 lovers building , during 50 years,  ... BUILDING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG, are you kidding me ? perhaps, you meant very scfi style building with special technology because Mall and Cobb are 2 pure geeks ? No, we are saying "bulding", very high, and ulgy, classic, uninspired building ... ... ...
It is true that, considering the Fisher's testament story, it was important to keep something close to the reality to convince Fisher Junior but ... the third level, where there was no need to have something "real" because any treasure chest, prison (psychatric hospital anyone ?) would have made it, was ... a fucking overboring military base in a cold level : more pan-pan ! Also, we have to remember that Mall, throught Cobb, was able to get inside and make the things messier for them : not enought exploited IMO. The enemies were mainly the military "pan-pan" guys : fuck you Nolan !

Thirdly, let's go back to the main plot story. I must say, that, like you, the most interesting part (THE part) is the Cobb story and nothing else. So the movie is completely focus on this and it is very good (more charatcer developpment ==> gg).
I was, like you, mixed at the end about "what is dream ? what is reallity ?"
Here are my questions/notes :

- what, concretely happen, if someone touch your totem ? I mean, you cant modifiy object property in 1 seconde, neither learn those properties ? so it is not that bad to touch it since you cant modify it. Expect perhaps if you could steal it ? or learn those properties ?

- as someone said, at the end, in the limb, we are all guessing that Saito kill Cobb and then kill himself ? Am I wrong ? Is there any others issues possible ?

- at the end, the grandfather is here too. But he is supposed to live ... in Paris. It means Cobb said him to join him in the US before being sure he will succeed his mission ... well, not that big after all ....

- the children, at the end, the way they are sitting, the house, the grass, the way they turn their head, the way someone call them ... it is exactly like in the previous dream but from a different angle ... could Cobb still be dreaming at this moment about a past or imagined event ?

- about the different injury / gravity change and, in general, the "physical" relation between the 3 dreamed level :
does it always make sense ? This is where I have my big doubts about the presence of many "plot holes"

whatever, this is all for the moment. I liked the movie but not as much as some people.
So, IF this movie makes complete sense ... then very big respect for Nolan.



Time to Work !

I gotta see that.



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I find the whole concept of totems is such an annoying and unexplained paradox.  It contradicts the ideology presented in the movie that you can't consciously be aware of something 'strange' until you wake up, so how could you then possibly assign 'strange' physics properties to an object subconsciously?

I really like the idea that the ending is Nolan's inception on the audience.  He plants the seed of doubt to make you question its reality, through the totem and other red herrings throughout the film supporting either side.

I also like the fact that Cobb doesn't wait around for the totem to stop, meaning it doesn't matter as long as he's happy and with his children.