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Forums - Gaming - Dutch Microsoft Exec: Sony Doesn't Give a **** About Move

psrock on 17 July 2010
chocoloco said:
Seece said:
Khuutra said:
Seece said:
chocoloco said:

If you think they are a disaster you must live in a sad world were everything is negative. Its like saying that the N64, Gamecube, and every console made by Sega was a complete failure because of the lack of sales.

Sega, I don't know much about, but Nintendo have always made a profit on their consoles.

360 and PS3 have been money pits, PS3 moreso losing over $5 billion , 360 losing $1.5 billion including the RROD losses.


Edit - Yeah anyway what I meant is, I can see how both are seen as a disaster, because of the billions they've lost, which at the end of the day, however great the console and games, losing that much is awful.

I think you can argue that the 360 isn't really a disaster, since its intent wasn't to make money (I think) so much as it was to headbutt Sony over and over. Microsoft was helped substantially by both Nintendo and Sony on this point, but if all they're trying to do is beat Sony into submission then I think they're doing pretty well for themselves.

And SEGA had a few really bad years.

TBH, I think Microsoft's worries about Sony taking over the living room/PC area (I think that's the reason MS got in on this business) were ... misguided?

I think they knew they were releasing a faulty product, and knew they would ave to shell out big time and pay the price. But they became profitable in late 07/early 08 if memory serves me right, for Microsoft this is some feat.

And now we're looking at them making $1 billion in one fiscal year, and the 670 Million from the previous 2 fiscal years, they're doing well. The 360 should be a profitable venture for Microsoft by end of 2012 all going well, so I guess that and the fact by how much marketshare headway Microsoft has made, and the increased strength of the xbox brand, means 360 is a success, I want to wait a little while longer before saying that though ...

PS3? .. well I aint even going there


I'm glad you didn't speak of the PS3 because your 360 bias is so strong I can smell you from America. :)


Well, to be fair there is no way to defend a console that as erased all profit made by te Playstaion in the last 7 years.



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chocoloco on 17 July 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
chocoloco said:
Mr Puggsly said:
BBH said:

'Sony have to pull something out of the cupboard quickly'

- Well MS did this exact thing with their actual console.


Well Sony just blatantly ripped off the WIi.

MS actually created an original console. Unfortunately they used shit hardware that failed often. But Sony's quality hardware didn't benefit them financially (and they still have a pretty high failrate).

Both HD consoles have been a disaster.

If you think they are a disaster you must live in a sad world were everything is negative. Its like saying that the N64, Gamecube, and every console made by Sega was a complete failure because of the lack of sales.


You must live in a world where people presume crap that's completely wrong.

The N64 and Gamecube were very profitable and sold tons of 1st party software. To the contrary, it'll be a while before the 360 gets out of the red and the PS3 never will.

The original Xbox sold a few million more than the Gamecube. But obviously the Gamecube was the real success between those two.

Sega didn't merge with Sammy because they were doing great on their own.  Sega was mostly a failure when it came to consoles. The Genesis was really their only popular console. The Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast were all failures. Even as a 3rd party developer they struggle.


Nobody would take offense if your Nintendo bias didn't seem to stink completely like a middle aged plumber. I know this is video game sales sight, but often the members act like the are actually gaining from one companies success. When we only gain when these video game studios and publushers provide us a great experience. Great experiences often do not translate into capital gain and that sucks there is always a loser. I guess I'm thinking like SciFi Boy b4 he seemingly got himself banned on purpose, that people need to forget product loyalty and just play the danm games.

I should probably continue to stay out of the business side of these gaming discussions as I am sick of over bias towards companies and not the ends, which should be fun.



arcane_chaos on 17 July 2010

this threads seems to have taken a wrong turn



pbroy on 17 July 2010
arcane_chaos said:

this threads seems to have taken a wrong turn


took a wrong turn.. No

swung the other way.. Yes

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Mr Puggsly on 18 July 2010
chocoloco said:
Mr Puggsly said:
chocoloco said:
Mr Puggsly said:
BBH said:

'Sony have to pull something out of the cupboard quickly'

- Well MS did this exact thing with their actual console.


Well Sony just blatantly ripped off the WIi.

MS actually created an original console. Unfortunately they used shit hardware that failed often. But Sony's quality hardware didn't benefit them financially (and they still have a pretty high failrate).

Both HD consoles have been a disaster.

If you think they are a disaster you must live in a sad world were everything is negative. Its like saying that the N64, Gamecube, and every console made by Sega was a complete failure because of the lack of sales.


You must live in a world where people presume crap that's completely wrong.

The N64 and Gamecube were very profitable and sold tons of 1st party software. To the contrary, it'll be a while before the 360 gets out of the red and the PS3 never will.

The original Xbox sold a few million more than the Gamecube. But obviously the Gamecube was the real success between those two.

Sega didn't merge with Sammy because they were doing great on their own.  Sega was mostly a failure when it came to consoles. The Genesis was really their only popular console. The Sega CD, 32X, Saturn, and Dreamcast were all failures. Even as a 3rd party developer they struggle.


Nobody would take offense if your Nintendo bias didn't seem to stink completely like a middle aged plumber. I know this is video game sales sight, but often the members act like the are actually gaining from one companies success. When we only gain when these video game studios and publushers provide us a great experience. Great experiences often do not translate into capital gain and that sucks there is always a loser. I guess I'm thinking like SciFi Boy b4 he seemingly got himself banned on purpose, that people need to forget product loyalty and just play the danm games.

I should probably continue to stay out of the business side of these gaming discussions as I am sick of over bias towards companies and not the ends, which should be fun.

I'm lost in your response. I explained why the N64 and Gamecube were successful... and that makes me bias towards middle aged plumber? I'm actually bias towards the Xbox 360 but that has nothing to do with this.

I'm not pretending I'm apart of the gaming industry. Its simply a fact that profit is more important than how many game boxes you can sell (or in Sony's case, give away). I just hope the things I enjoy make a profit so I can see more of it.



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Severance on 18 July 2010
arcane_chaos said:

this threads seems to have taken a wrong turn


it was on the wrong track to begin with.



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BMaker11 on 18 July 2010
Mr Puggsly said:
chocoloco said:
Seece said:
chocoloco said:
Mr Puggsly said:
BBH said:

'Sony have to pull something out of the cupboard quickly'

- Well MS did this exact thing with their actual console.


Well Sony just blatantly ripped off the WIi.

MS actually created an original console. Unfortunately they used shit hardware that failed often. But Sony's quality hardware didn't benefit them financially (and they still have a pretty high failrate).

Both HD consoles have been a disaster.

If you think they are a disaster you must live in a sad world were everything is negative. Its like saying that the N64, Gamecube, and every console made by Sega was a complete failure because of the lack of sales.

Sega, I don't know much about, but Nintendo have always made a profit on their consoles.

360 and PS3 have been money pits, PS3 moreso losing over $5 billion , 360 losing $1.5 billion including the RROD losses.


Edit - Yeah anyway what I meant is, I can see how both are seen as a disaster, because of the billions they've lost, which at the end of the day, however great the console and games, losing that much is awful.


This would be fine if that was made clear that he was talking about profit. A financial disaster they certainly are. I am just sick of Nintento only fans using that as an excuse to say they have no value. I think the PS3/360 together currently have more fans than Nintendo.


Ofcourse I mean profit. The game industry is a business. You think this is just an expensive hobby for MS and Sony?

Neither you nor I have absolutely ANY stock in the Big 3 companies. If Sony or Microsoft made ZERO profit, I as a gamer wouldn't care because they have provided great games that cannot be experienced anywhere else. If you want to trumpet Nintendo because they make money, fine. Have fun with Wii Fit and Carnival Games. 

I know we should want them to make money, because like you said, they are businesses and without money, they would go under. But even if Sony or Microsoft exited the gaming industry, someone..ANYONE would pick up the slack and give us similar experiences. So I think that's a moot point. Profit doesn't mean nothing, but it's also not the end all. PS3 has lost many billions of dollars but for the last 2-3 years, according to most critics, it has provided the best games amongst the 3 consoles.

OR do you believe that the Dreamcast was just ass and the 3DO was better? I mean...3DO posted profits in its later quarters, so.......



Reasonable on 18 July 2010

He's right that MS do seem to put more effort into marketing and pushing their products, and in particular they are clearly going to spend a fortune on Kinect.

But as for the whole, FUD, "how dare a competitor, you know, compete with us" angle... that's simply unprofessional whining.   Why wouldn't Sony release somthing like Move following the success of the Wii?  Why are MS releasing Kinect?  Because they are huge inovators?  No, because another competitor has seen great success in a certain area and they want a slice of the pie.

Heck, by his reasoning MS should never have entered the business, bringing a lot of FUD and uncertainty to an established marketplace with established players.  I mean, how dare they chose to release consoles and games at the same time as Sony and Nintendo!

I also love the double standard since MS clearly try and carefully release certain titles and price changes to have maximum negative impact on Sony and Nintendo.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

binary solo on 18 July 2010
Slimebeast said:

There's some truth to what he's saying. I don't think Sony cares if Move fails (which it will). Meanwhile, if Kinect fails (which it will, I am afraid) it's a huge disaster for Xbox.

Overly pessimistic I think. One or both will be successful this gen (though whether it's modestly successful or wildly successful who knows?). And regardless of whether Sony is FUDding with the Move (and I don't think they are) both will be there in round 8. Anyone who wants to be viable in the 8th console gen will have to at least bring forward 7th gen control methods (or something like them). Sony and Microsoft can't be competitive in the next gen without motion controls, so either of them FUDding on Kinect / Move without a long term strategy to have an effective motion control system would be stupid, and would spell death for them in the console game.

There is so much clear evidence that Sony is not FUDding in any way that can remotely connected to the HDDVD FUDding that it would take too long to list the reasons why they are not comparable. Not to say they aren't FUDding to some extent, but Sony have made a significant investment of their own money (did MS make any sort of significant investment in HDDVD?) in Move that they really do want it to do well.

I do agree there's less jeopardy for Sony if Move fails, compared to MS's jeopardy if Kinect fails. And this is probably reflected to a certain extent in the greater marketing drive MS has.



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Seece on 18 July 2010
chocoloco said:
Seece said:
Khuutra said:
Seece said:
chocoloco said:

If you think they are a disaster you must live in a sad world were everything is negative. Its like saying that the N64, Gamecube, and every console made by Sega was a complete failure because of the lack of sales.

Sega, I don't know much about, but Nintendo have always made a profit on their consoles.

360 and PS3 have been money pits, PS3 moreso losing over $5 billion , 360 losing $1.5 billion including the RROD losses.


Edit - Yeah anyway what I meant is, I can see how both are seen as a disaster, because of the billions they've lost, which at the end of the day, however great the console and games, losing that much is awful.

I think you can argue that the 360 isn't really a disaster, since its intent wasn't to make money (I think) so much as it was to headbutt Sony over and over. Microsoft was helped substantially by both Nintendo and Sony on this point, but if all they're trying to do is beat Sony into submission then I think they're doing pretty well for themselves.

And SEGA had a few really bad years.

TBH, I think Microsoft's worries about Sony taking over the living room/PC area (I think that's the reason MS got in on this business) were ... misguided?

I think they knew they were releasing a faulty product, and knew they would ave to shell out big time and pay the price. But they became profitable in late 07/early 08 if memory serves me right, for Microsoft this is some feat.

And now we're looking at them making $1 billion in one fiscal year, and the 670 Million from the previous 2 fiscal years, they're doing well. The 360 should be a profitable venture for Microsoft by end of 2012 all going well, so I guess that and the fact by how much marketshare headway Microsoft has made, and the increased strength of the xbox brand, means 360 is a success, I want to wait a little while longer before saying that though ...

PS3? .. well I aint even going there


I'm glad you didn't speak of the PS3 because your 360 bias is so strong I can smell you from America. :)

I didn't speak of PS3 because it's lost a lot more than 360, plain and simple.

& I live in the UK.