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Forums - Gaming - Square-Enix: Trouble Fitting FFXIV On PS3

Solid_Snake4RD on 17 July 2010
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
AkibaFan said:
selnor said:

As many have pointed out before. The PS3's memory architecture is the issue. it has only 256mb available to the CPU and 256mb available to GPU. 

Niether can borrow from each other. Whereas a PC has alot more available. And the Cell is a long way behind current CPU's.

so they mite have to downgrade ffxiv on PC for ps3 version?


no

they just mean that that it takes more time to get same power out of PS3 than the PC which they are used to for the last so many years


MMOs are a very different beasts than normal games. In MMOs you try to have as much data in RAM as possible, because you have tons of different assets that you could need any time. You need to have those assets in RAM, at least, because reading from the HD or Blu ray in real time means a disaster in performance. In Uncharted, GoW, even Killzone you know where the player is going, you can stream the texture data in advance, but in a MMO you can't do that easily, because you don't know what is going to be needed in advance, with the huge maps MMOs have.

agree

i really think FF14 will have an installation needed

In WoW you have all the assets of the continent stored in RAM, sometimes as much as a gig of ram consumed by it's process, even being a 6 years old game. With only 256 RAM 256 VRAM, they will have to reduce the texture data to fit in the PS3 memory.

yes but VRAM doesn't really take all the Graphic processing stress,it gets help from the other 256mb of RAM





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Kynes on 17 July 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
AkibaFan said:
selnor said:

As many have pointed out before. The PS3's memory architecture is the issue. it has only 256mb available to the CPU and 256mb available to GPU. 

Niether can borrow from each other. Whereas a PC has alot more available. And the Cell is a long way behind current CPU's.

so they mite have to downgrade ffxiv on PC for ps3 version?


no

they just mean that that it takes more time to get same power out of PS3 than the PC which they are used to for the last so many years


MMOs are a very different beasts than normal games. In MMOs you try to have as much data in RAM as possible, because you have tons of different assets that you could need any time. You need to have those assets in RAM, at least, because reading from the HD or Blu ray in real time means a disaster in performance. In Uncharted, GoW, even Killzone you know where the player is going, you can stream the texture data in advance, but in a MMO you can't do that easily, because you don't know what is going to be needed in advance, with the huge maps MMOs have.

agree

i really think FF14 will have an installation needed

In WoW you have all the assets of the continent stored in RAM, sometimes as much as a gig of ram consumed by it's process, even being a 6 years old game. With only 256 RAM 256 VRAM, they will have to reduce the texture data to fit in the PS3 memory.

yes but VRAM doesn't really take all the Graphic processing stress,it gets help from the other 256mb of RAM



You don't seem to understand the implications of an open world. Even with 512 megs in total, it's a tiny amount for a modern MMO, and the easiest/only thing you can compress/reduce in size is texture data. You can't/shouldn't reduce poligon meshes, or the number of assets, so they have their hands tied.



Zkuq on 17 July 2010
Kynes said:

They should probably downgrade texture (bump maps, normal maps...) resolution to fit in the 256 MB VRAM, but only on the PS3 version. I don't think they'll downgrade the PC version to match the PS3 bottlenecks.

Actually I'd imagine the problem is more with the 'normal' RAM, not VRAM. But that's just simple logic, not that I'd actually know: PCs usually have more RAM than VRAM, while PS3 has an equal amount of both.



Solid_Snake4RD on 17 July 2010
kowenicki said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
kowenicki said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
kowenicki said:

it isnt anything to do with the power oif the Cell... just the RAM bottleneck that slows it down.


exactly

CELL has nothing to do with it

it still poor design though... why did they skimp on the RAM?  very curious decision.

are you talking that CELL has a poor design,if you are then you are wrong.its just that its a new architecture

if you are talking about the RAM provided,its because they were first going to not include a GPU and put 512 ram for 2 CELL but devs found it too hard as it was new architecture so they left 1 CELL and put  RSX in

and even then it isn't that bad if you know how to use it.as RSX doesn't take all the load like other GPU's but shares it so the GPU ram is not at stress.and CPU can handle the stress


i was talking about low RAM


i wrote on both



Solid_Snake4RD on 17 July 2010
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
AkibaFan said:
selnor said:

As many have pointed out before. The PS3's memory architecture is the issue. it has only 256mb available to the CPU and 256mb available to GPU. 

Niether can borrow from each other. Whereas a PC has alot more available. And the Cell is a long way behind current CPU's.

so they mite have to downgrade ffxiv on PC for ps3 version?


no

they just mean that that it takes more time to get same power out of PS3 than the PC which they are used to for the last so many years


MMOs are a very different beasts than normal games. In MMOs you try to have as much data in RAM as possible, because you have tons of different assets that you could need any time. You need to have those assets in RAM, at least, because reading from the HD or Blu ray in real time means a disaster in performance. In Uncharted, GoW, even Killzone you know where the player is going, you can stream the texture data in advance, but in a MMO you can't do that easily, because you don't know what is going to be needed in advance, with the huge maps MMOs have.

agree

i really think FF14 will have an installation needed

In WoW you have all the assets of the continent stored in RAM, sometimes as much as a gig of ram consumed by it's process, even being a 6 years old game. With only 256 RAM 256 VRAM, they will have to reduce the texture data to fit in the PS3 memory.

yes but VRAM doesn't really take all the Graphic processing stress,it gets help from the other 256mb of RAM



You don't seem to understand the implications of an open world. Even with 512 megs in total, it's a tiny amount for a modern MMO, and the easiest/only thing you can compress/reduce in size is texture data. You can't/shouldn't reduce poligon meshes, or the number of assets, so they have their hands tied.

YEAH THE OPEN WORLD needs more power

but if make it eary and faster to read then the ram can do it more quicker than depedning upon the speed of other things



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Kynes on 17 July 2010
Zkuq said:
Kynes said:

They should probably downgrade texture (bump maps, normal maps...) resolution to fit in the 256 MB VRAM, but only on the PS3 version. I don't think they'll downgrade the PC version to match the PS3 bottlenecks.

Actually I'd imagine the problem is more with the 'normal' RAM, not VRAM. But that's just simple logic, not that I'd actually know: PCs usually have more RAM than VRAM, while PS3 has an equal amount of both.


The thing is that you don't keep in VRAM all the textures, you use RAM to do caching. RAM is several orders of magnitude faster than HD, which is orders of magnitude faster than optical media, and in MMOs you try to keep in RAM as most data as possible, and in modern games that data are, in a really big percentage, graphics related data.



Kynes on 17 July 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
...


MMOs are a very different beasts than normal games. In MMOs you try to have as much data in RAM as possible, because you have tons of different assets that you could need any time. You need to have those assets in RAM, at least, because reading from the HD or Blu ray in real time means a disaster in performance. In Uncharted, GoW, even Killzone you know where the player is going, you can stream the texture data in advance, but in a MMO you can't do that easily, because you don't know what is going to be needed in advance, with the huge maps MMOs have.

agree

i really think FF14 will have an installation needed

In WoW you have all the assets of the continent stored in RAM, sometimes as much as a gig of ram consumed by it's process, even being a 6 years old game. With only 256 RAM 256 VRAM, they will have to reduce the texture data to fit in the PS3 memory.

yes but VRAM doesn't really take all the Graphic processing stress,it gets help from the other 256mb of RAM



You don't seem to understand the implications of an open world. Even with 512 megs in total, it's a tiny amount for a modern MMO, and the easiest/only thing you can compress/reduce in size is texture data. You can't/shouldn't reduce poligon meshes, or the number of assets, so they have their hands tied.

YEAH THE OPEN WORLD needs more power

but if make it eary and faster to read then the ram can do it more quicker than depedning upon the speed of other things

WTF do you want to imply with that? Please, explain it applying logic.



Solid_Snake4RD on 17 July 2010
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
...


MMOs are a very different beasts than normal games. In MMOs you try to have as much data in RAM as possible, because you have tons of different assets that you could need any time. You need to have those assets in RAM, at least, because reading from the HD or Blu ray in real time means a disaster in performance. In Uncharted, GoW, even Killzone you know where the player is going, you can stream the texture data in advance, but in a MMO you can't do that easily, because you don't know what is going to be needed in advance, with the huge maps MMOs have.

agree

i really think FF14 will have an installation needed

In WoW you have all the assets of the continent stored in RAM, sometimes as much as a gig of ram consumed by it's process, even being a 6 years old game. With only 256 RAM 256 VRAM, they will have to reduce the texture data to fit in the PS3 memory.

yes but VRAM doesn't really take all the Graphic processing stress,it gets help from the other 256mb of RAM



You don't seem to understand the implications of an open world. Even with 512 megs in total, it's a tiny amount for a modern MMO, and the easiest/only thing you can compress/reduce in size is texture data. You can't/shouldn't reduce poligon meshes, or the number of assets, so they have their hands tied.

YEAH THE OPEN WORLD needs more power

but if make it eary and faster to read then the ram can do it more quicker than depedning upon the speed of other things

WTF do you want to imply with that? Please, explain it applying logic.

the thing i was implying was that i agree with you that open worlds needed realtime processing of data as its not a limited game

but 512mb ram should be enough for it.

and also the install on PS3 will help as it would be faster than blu-ray reading



Kynes on 17 July 2010
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
...

YEAH THE OPEN WORLD needs more power

but if make it eary and faster to read then the ram can do it more quicker than depedning upon the speed of other things

WTF do you want to imply with that? Please, explain it applying logic.

the thing i was implying was that i agree with you that open worlds needed realtime processing of data as its not a limited game

but 512mb ram should be enough for it.

and also the install on PS3 will help as it would be faster than blu-ray reading


It isn't enough to SE. What do you think "We have to optimise the data so that it will fit on the console and that’s taking a lot longer than we first thought…" means?



Solid_Snake4RD on 17 July 2010
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Kynes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
...

YEAH THE OPEN WORLD needs more power

but if make it eary and faster to read then the ram can do it more quicker than depedning upon the speed of other things

WTF do you want to imply with that? Please, explain it applying logic.

the thing i was implying was that i agree with you that open worlds needed realtime processing of data as its not a limited game

but 512mb ram should be enough for it.

and also the install on PS3 will help as it would be faster than blu-ray reading


It isn't enough to SE. What do you think "We have to optimise the data so that it will fit on the console and that’s taking a lot longer than we first thought…" means?

it means that its easy for them to put the game on PC with high requirments and they are used to that machine for so many years

and it takes more time when you have to dow ith new type of machine

 

its like Crysis which can be completed very soon once the engine is created for the PC as they just increase the requirements and they are used to the system

but its difficult on the consoles and takes more time