By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Atheists on the rise in America

FootballFan said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.

But, you could always get baptized later if you wanted. Also I want to know why Christians feel the need for it anyway. Surely if your connection with God is that strong you can just tell him through prayer rather than going through these ceremonies.

Well, in the case of catholics (not sure whether later churches accepted that), if a baby died and wasn't baptised, they wouldn't go to heaven. Babies were very prone to dying at those times anyway (like 5th century). Then there was the concept of Limbo and they sent them there.

Not the case now for catholics though, somebody changed their mind and there isn't actually limbo, so they go to heaven now.



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.


And why would it have been any different if I wasn't baptised? I still could have chosen later on, except that nothing would have been forced on me. I would rather have nothing to do with any kind of religous things until I was old enough to decide for myself.



FootballFan said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.

But, you could always get baptized later if you wanted. Also I want to know why Christians feel the need for it anyway. Surely if your connection with God is that strong you can just tell him through prayer rather than going through these ceremonies.

It's always a lot eaiser to say something then it is to do something.

For example, most people would say they would resist a hitler like regime that tried to exterminate a group of people.

In reality... most people wouldn't.



lolita said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.


And why would it have been any different if I wasn't baptised? I still could have chosen later on, except that nothing would have been forced on me. I would rather have nothing to do with any kind of religous things until I was old enough to decide for myself.

Unless you died before you were old enough to decide for yourself.  Not that it seems to matter in your particular case... but in most cases when you argue "my parents shouldn't of baptized me".

What you are asking them is largely.... "Why did you make a choice that would make sure if I died we'd spend forever together rather then wait 15 years or so until I could make up my own mind."

In your case, it was just a cerimony... that literally effected you in no real way.  It'd be like being upset you were thrown a birthday party at 1 when you were too early to decide if you liked birthday parties.



Kasz216 said:
FootballFan said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.

But, you could always get baptized later if you wanted. Also I want to know why Christians feel the need for it anyway. Surely if your connection with God is that strong you can just tell him through prayer rather than going through these ceremonies.

It's always a lot eaiser to say something then it is to do something.

For example, most people would say they would resist a hitler like regime that tried to exterminate a group of people.

In reality... most people wouldn't.

Uhh seriously bad analogy. Getting a baptism isn't at all like resisting Hitler.

One of them requires no bravery and almost no effort, the other is heroic. Baptism is practically only saying something through ceremony.



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:

Er... are you sure how it works... because... if I'm understanding you... that makes no sense.

How it works... at least in the US and every other system i've seen... your quotas are the first spots filled.  For example if you had a quota that your school pf 100 needs to be 10% asian...  the smartest  10 asians would fill your 10% quota.

From there the rest of the asians are moved into the pool for universal shares.

Its the only way i've ever heard of quotas working... heck it's the only way quotas can work.  Otherwise it's not a quota.

Though admittidly England is weird.  I mean, i'm pretty sure they have 100% muslim schools.

Really religious diversity in schools have been shown to greatly increase academic output.

It works like this:

If there are 100 places and 10 of them are reserved for a quota (let's say there's only a single quota), everyone runs for the 90 universal places. If you're eligible to the quota but make it into the first 90, you'll get one of those 90 universal spots. Now, if you don't make it into the first 90 and have quotas on your favour, you'll now run with everyone else that's in the same situation as you for the last 10 places, so if you had at least the 10th best score among the quotists who didn't make it into the top-90 overall, you'll get in.

It makes it much easier to get in since a minority of people have access to the quotas. The way you describe the less apt asians would be running against the more apt non-asians, and thus have a smaller chance of getting into the universal portion of the places. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that if you're right, then the system here actually benefits the quotist more.

And of course religious diversity in schools makes for better academic output. Schools should never touch religion. We have universities around here which actually have religion (as in their religion) as required credits for every course. It's ridiculous.



Rath said:

Just to semi-drunkenly put it out there. As an atheist I hate it when fundamentalist Christians tell me they 'respect my beliefs' at the same time as believing I'm going to spend eternity in hell. It seems somehow contradictory.


Yeah, I sometimes wonder, are these people monsters or do they just have some kind of mind-block going on so they can't really think what their belief means?

I think the block makes sense, explains a lot too.



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
FootballFan said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.

But, you could always get baptized later if you wanted. Also I want to know why Christians feel the need for it anyway. Surely if your connection with God is that strong you can just tell him through prayer rather than going through these ceremonies.

It's always a lot eaiser to say something then it is to do something.

For example, most people would say they would resist a hitler like regime that tried to exterminate a group of people.

In reality... most people wouldn't.

Uhh seriously bad analogy. Getting a baptism isn't at all like resisting Hitler.

One of them requires no bravery and almost no effort, the other is heroic. Baptism is practically only saying something through ceremony.

Yea, my mother and friends wanted me to get baptized (and I am an atheist). They know I am an atheist, so not sure why they want me to do it.

If I don't accept Jesus as my savor while I do it, it's just some guy poring water on my face. Kind of stupid.



Farmageddon said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... are you sure how it works... because... if I'm understanding you... that makes no sense.

How it works... at least in the US and every other system i've seen... your quotas are the first spots filled.  For example if you had a quota that your school pf 100 needs to be 10% asian...  the smartest  10 asians would fill your 10% quota.

From there the rest of the asians are moved into the pool for universal shares.

Its the only way i've ever heard of quotas working... heck it's the only way quotas can work.  Otherwise it's not a quota.

Though admittidly England is weird.  I mean, i'm pretty sure they have 100% muslim schools.

Really religious diversity in schools have been shown to greatly increase academic output.

It works like this:

If there are 100 places and 10 of them are reserved for a quota (let's say there's only a single quota), everyone runs for the 90 universal places. If you're eligible to the quota but make it into the first 90, you'll get one of those 90 universal spots. Now, if you don't make it into the first 90 and have quotas on your favour, you'll now run with everyone else that's in the same situation as you for the last 10 places, so if you had at least the 10th best score among the quotists who didn't make it into the top-90 overall, you'll get in.

It makes it much easier to get in since a minority of people have access to the quotas. The way you describe the less apt asians would be running against the more apt non-asians, and thus have a smaller chance of getting into the universal portion of the places. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that if you're right, then the system here actually benefits the quotist more.

And of course religious diversity in schools makes for better academic output. Schools should never touch religion. We have universities around here which actually have religion (as in their religion) as required credits for every course. It's ridiculous.

Well... that's just stupid if your quotas actually work that way.  I've never seen or heard of quotas actually working that way. 

Of course your region also teaches America as one continent somehow doesn't it?



Rath said:
Kasz216 said:
FootballFan said:
Kasz216 said:
lolita said:

I was baptised as a baby because my mom is just into traditions and she thinks it's beautiful. Not a religious reason at all. My dad was against it though, he doesn't think it's fair to make a child's religious decisions. There isn't a consent and neither an understanding of it. I agree with him...


Honestly, I don't get why it matters.  It's not like your actually locked in to being a Christian of that denomination you were baptized in.  It's not like them sterilizing you at birth or anything.   It just keeps an option open for you until you decide whatever you want to do.

But, you could always get baptized later if you wanted. Also I want to know why Christians feel the need for it anyway. Surely if your connection with God is that strong you can just tell him through prayer rather than going through these ceremonies.

It's always a lot eaiser to say something then it is to do something.

For example, most people would say they would resist a hitler like regime that tried to exterminate a group of people.

In reality... most people wouldn't.

Uhh seriously bad analogy. Getting a baptism isn't at all like resisting Hitler.

One of them requires no bravery and almost no effort, the other is heroic. Baptism is practically only saying something through ceremony.

Baptism requires forthought, contemplation and a work organizing it.  The point is, what you say and what you do is often different... and having to go through the actions may make you realize something about yourself that you didn't know.

How many more vegetarians would there be if you had to tour factory farms and slaugher houses?

How many people who claim they care about the enviroment can't even be bothered to recycle or carpool when they get the chance... etc.