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Forums - Sony Discussion - Are Sony's 1st Party Studios Leading The Way?

rockeford2010 said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:
rockeford2010 said:
TheNoobHolocaust said:

People's opinion of a game is more improtant to the consumer than the sales are. Unless you're the publisher what do you care how much a game sells.

There are plenty of games that were amazing but were not met with a good amount of sales, and there are plenty of games that got good sales even though they didn't deserve it as much as others.

You can't tell me you use sales of a game over the opinions of people that played the game to decide if you get a game or not.

Honest Review > Sales

Is that even Real? there are no "Honest reviews"

 

Everyone has different opinions about a game.

An honest review is what you honestly thought about the game, no bias, sales depend on to many factors like userbase of the console and marketing of the game.

Therefore Honest Review > Sales

No, install base has nothing to do with it. Just compare games in the ps2 with games in the ps3.

 

And well... my honest review on a game, might be different than yours. Then... which one will be right?

For example, many people praised Uncharted.... i couldnt even finish it. I didnt like it.

Other people thought God of War III wasnt that great..... for me, is the best the ps3 has.....

 


Well you see there, you gave me your opinion and I take that into consideration more than I do the sales of the game.



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TheNoobHolocaust said:
rockeford2010 said:

Is that even Real? there are no "Honest reviews"

 

Everyone has different opinions about a game.

An honest review is what you honestly thought about the game, no bias, sales depend on to many factors like userbase of the console and marketing of the game.

Therefore Honest Review > Sales

Review scores and sales are influenced by the same factors. Wide appeal generally = high sales = high reviews. Marketing influences review scores and sales. Bias influences review scores and sales because no game is ever reviewed without a reviewing carrying bias into it and no game is bought without some form of preconception.

If theres a perfect world where reviews were perfect, sales would allign perfectly with reviews in accordance to whatever market size the game was selling to.

 





CGI-Quality said:
patapon said:

Wow, this thread went right off a cliff didn't it? I wish the author rewrote the article but instead took into consideration arbitrary terminology like 1st/2nd/3rd party.

We all know what the article is trying to say. And that whether or not something is 1st party doesn't matter. He's saying everything in regards to Sony games. Take Demon's Souls, that's a Sony game. Sony owns the IP and helped develop it into the glory it is today. It's undeniable, Demon's Souls is a Sony game. The same for games like Infamous, Infamous 2, Ratchet/Clank, Resistance, Flower, etc.
 
Take Nintendo's relationship with many of their "2nd party" games, IE Metroid: Other M. I think we can all agree that Other M is a Nintendo game, right? First, they own the IP. And second, Nintendo has taken keen interest in making that a fantastic game full of quality goodness, yes? Yes. It's a Nintendo game in the same way that Demon's Souls is a Sony game. This is where the article is really coming from. And I think it's disingenuous to say "No, that's not a Sony game because it wasn't completely made by a 100% owned subsidiary of Sony!!!"
 
If you disagree that Sony is the only place of innovative games, then by god go about it that way! Don't try to say that Demon's Souls or Infamous aren't Sony games... because you are wrong. I personally think each of the big 3 have highly innovative, unique experiences. I also think this article is very one sided. The only thing I 100% find myself agreeing with the author is when he says Sony is THE leader in technical graphics. This is pretty much factual so far. But I guess we'll have to see how titles like Rage and Brink turn out.

Not often I say this to you but, EXCELLENT post!

I agree



rockerford you really dont have a clue do you. You are telling me that it is not amazing that Sony have the least Install base to sell to this gen and yet they still make the top 6 for software?

And back in the PS2 days sony didnt bring out games that match the quality of the games that are comming out thi sgen. In my opinion. Pluss GOW 1 2 Came out when the PS2 was in its decline.



Nobody's perfect. I aint nobody!!!

Killzone 2. its not a fps. it a FIRST PERSON WAR SIMULATOR!!!! ..The true PLAYSTATION 3 launch date and market dominations is SEP 1st

Doobie_wop said:
okr said:

Oh, I didn't argue either that Ratchet & Clank is superior or inferior to its closest competitor. I'm just saying it's one example of a franchise which sells way less - even to devoted Sony fans, who think Sony has generally the superior output - than Nintendo's competitor games to their devoted fans.

Another example: Modnation Racers, which was praised by many Sony fans (and some reviewers) to be better than Mario Kart (which I won't argue either, as these are opinions and I never care anyway which game on what system is the "better" one) and which generally got slightly higher ratings than Mario Kart afaik, sold ~340.000 copies to a  worldwide userbase of >35 million PS3 owners so far. Last week it sold around 20.000 copies worldwde, in its 6th week on the market. Why don't even the devoted Sony fans, who think Sony has the superior games, seem to buy this game?

If we use your 2nd R&C argument for Modnations Racers as well and assume for a moment that "there's no market" for cartoony racers on the system, here's two other examples for people with "evolved" tastes:
Why is Sony's own Killzone 2 with an average rating of ~90 outsold by the latest 3 CoD games on PS3? Why did inFamous, whose announced sequel is already  eagerly awaited by Sony fans, sell only ~1.6 million copies?

The answer is variety. I buy games covering a wide variety of genres, but my neighbour only buy's shooters and racing games. My neighbour is pretty much covered until the next generation because the amount of high quality shooters and driving games is high. The same thing applies to people who only buy RPG's and Hack 'n' Slash, Puzzle games and strategy games, action games and platformer's and etc. Both the PS3 and 360 have a library which covers a far larger variety of quality games, mainly because they have strong third party support.

The Wii doesn't have that amount of variety yet, you pretty much have two buyers on the Wii, the casual audience and then the more core audience. One audience buy's No More Heroes, the other buy's Carnival games and they both buy Nintendo games. Then you have Nintendo's titles limited by either being platformers, Zelda or Mario Kart. There isn't as much competition for my money.

So when Killzone 3 releases, I as a shooter fan have to pick between Killzone 3, Medal of Honour, Gears of War 3, Halo: Reach, Black Ops, Crysis, Resistance 3, Rage, Vanquish and XCom. If I only owned a PS3, I'd have 7 titles to pick from, as someone who own's both consoles it makes it even harder to narrow my purchase to a specific product. The same thing applies to many other genres on the console. 

Devoted Sony fan's probably only probably cover's a few million buyer's, but then those buyer's all have different taste in games and there are enough titles releasing that their all pretty much covered. Just compare the amount of games at E3 for the HD consoles and then compare that to the amount releasing on the Wii and you can see that one completely envelopes another.

That's an explanation I can accept and I also agree with you: I think Sony offers a great variety of own games on their systems. You gave me a good answer to my question why many of Sony's own games sell good, but not exorbitantly well on their own system.

The opinion piece quoted in the OP, on the other hand, offers nothing interesting, just "Sony's games are superior and can't be made on other systems. Period". Franchise variety is Sony's real strength, not the subjective superiority of the system or their games.



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Serious_frusting said:

rockerford you really dont have a clue do you. You are telling me that it is not amazing that Sony have the least Install base to sell to this gen and yet they still make the top 6 for software?

And back in the PS2 days sony didnt bring out games that match the quality of the games that are comming out thi sgen. In my opinion. Pluss GOW 1 2 Came out when the PS2 was in its decline.

So if install base is so important care to explain this:

 

How come Metal Gear Solid 4, on ps3 install base sold more than MGS3 on the ps2?

 

Still make the top 6 for software... what do you mean? Games?

 

1.- Wii sports

2.- Wii play

3.- wii fit

4.- Mario kart wii

5.- Wii sports Resort

6.- New Super Mario Bros Wii

7.- Wii fit plus

8.-  Call of Duty (x360)

9.- Super Smash Bros Brawl

10.- Super Mario Galaxy

Or do you mean total sales? By companies or what?



dahuman said:
DirtyP2002 said:

best developer in the world: Lionhead IMO

so... no.


don't you mean lionhead of the past? they made some awesome games in the past, and fable 1 was OK, and then that was it. Now I just want to send Peter M to the coocoo hospital.


Fable II is the best RPG this gen IMO. So no, the current Lionhead is excellent.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

Hmm dont need to say much, i agree with the article completely.



can't you guys just live by with other people's opinion? , i saw someone saying MGS sucks and i was readying my bazooka, but seriously just get over it!

-smoke coming out off used bazooka-



I live for the burn...and the sting of pleasure...
I live for the sword, the steel, and the gun...

- Wasteland - The Mission.

Severance said:

can't you guys just live by with other people's opinion? , i saw someone saying MGS sucks and i was readying my bazooka, but seriously just get over it!

-smoke coming out off used bazooka-


What ARE you talking about?

Are you saying this to the article or stuff like my post?



Kimi wa ne tashika ni ano toki watashi no soba ni ita

Itsudatte itsudatte itsudatte

Sugu yoko de waratteita

Nakushitemo torimodosu kimi wo

I will never leave you