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Forums - General Discussion - Losing Faith in Humanity...

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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

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SciFiBoy said:

seriously, im 21 years old, and im really fucking sick of some of the stupid shit we (humans) do.

racism, homophobia, sexism, hairism, all this arbitrary bs that people insult each other for, im just really fucking sick of it, why the fuck do people do this shit? seriously? do some people just not have functioning brain cells?


Do you think your the first one whos noticed all this , everyone knows the world and most of its people are just pure bullshit. Just deal with. Thats seriously the ONLY way to stop feeling sick of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

And sorry to everyone for the very depressing post.



End of 2012 prediction:

xbox 360 : 73-75 million  playstation 3 : 72-74 million  wii : 104-105 million 

Most hyped for :

Bioshock: infinte, The Last Of Us, Alan Wake's American Nightmare and Agent

richardhutnik said:
sapphi_snake said:
richardhutnik said:
 

Anything I bring up about sociopaths (I think someone else mentioned it first and ran with it) is that there are brilliant individuals who are very smart, and into science, and reason, and all sorts of things that would seem to make them a good citizen and good person.  BUT, such individuals have stunted emotional development, and end up turning their reason and logic int weapons they use to harm others.  The Unabomber is an example of this. 


I get what you're saying, but I never said sociopaths can't be brillaint individuals. I know that being a sociopath is mainly related to psichological and emotional aspects, not intelectual aspects. Your post made it seem as if I said otherwise.

I think I may of went back to the original post.  I don't think I was trying to disagree with you, only say something similar and add my own spin on it.  I think I was doing this, while trying to address the original post, and my understanding of the situation.  My experience in reading individuals who are into Star Trek, and its techno-optimism seen in Star Trek (as the original poster appears to be) is they generally have this belief that humanity is going to solve all its problems, and work them out, and we will all get peace and understanding as technology solves problems (given enough intellect).  This is the world Gene Roddenbury preached through Star Trek, and the original poster happened to have Spock doing the "Live Long and Prosper" sign with his hands (more evidence the person is an optimist in regards to humanity).  Well, then reality hits, and it undermines this belief, as humans do bad things.  Then you get a bad day and BLAMMO, you have a post like the original post.

So, I would say here, the original poster isn't going to find their hope looking in the world of Star Trek, because the world isn't showing signs being like that of Star Trek.

Never liked Star Trek very much. The whole universe didn't seem very believable (in terms of a plausible human society). Plus there was the whole magically teleporting back to the Enterprise just at the last minute.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
richardhutnik said:

So, I would say here, the original poster isn't going to find their hope looking in the world of Star Trek, because the world isn't showing signs being like that of Star Trek.

Never liked Star Trek very much. The whole universe didn't seem very believable (in terms of a plausible human society). Plus there was the whole magically teleporting back to the Enterprise just at the last minute.

Gene Roddenbury used Star Trek to preach materialistic humanism that he believed in (He discussed this in an interview in Humanist Magazine).  He created a future earth where technology, plus reasoning, would produce a utopia.  In his universe, all differences are ironed out, because people will be reasonable. It did feed well into the 1960s and the optimism people had in science then.  And people grew up on it, and ended up feeling they found a religion they could believe in.    I had wondered why the Enterprise didn't have clergy on it, and that is why.  It is out of this, that you still get people who try to hold onto it, thinking that humanity will evolve and no longer need God, and things will be fine. 

Well, what is interesting is look at Star Trek universe after Roddenbury passed away and was removed.  It is far more on edge, and that which is utopia isn't there.  Look for the reboot to be more entertainment in a hostile universe.  It will be one where people out of vengeance and emotional reasons, like in the last movie, where Spock is going to me more human (less Vulcan), and more driven by emotion.  Of course, making the universe that does rob Star Trek of its ability to moralize and tell a story with a point, which makes it like Twilight Zone in its ability to preach to people, and stick with people.



@richardhutnik

Well  the trend seems to be that the more humanity progresses and becomes more prosperous, and the more education becomes wildly available, the less religious people become. You can't deny that the civilized western world is a lot less religiousthen it used to be in the past , while the most religious places on the planet are third world countries struck by povert, disease, political instability, and illiteracy.

Since the world of Star Trek was an utopia, a perfect society where current day hardships weren't present, one might asume that religion would disappear altogether.Of course an utopia isn't possible, because societies aren't static and new problems andchallenges constantly occur.

Persoanlly I don't see why people need to worship deities. I understand that there's some form of psychological benefit in having faith in the supernatural (this applies to people of all religions that have strong religious convictions), but it seems to me like nothing more that auto-manipulation and self-deciet. Kind of like taking those pills that have no effect, but since you think they work you actually start feeling better (can't remember theri name).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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sapphi_snake said:

@richardhutnik

Well  the trend seems to be that the more humanity progresses and becomes more prosperous, and the more education becomes wildly available, the less religious people become. You can't deny that the civilized western world is a lot less religiousthen it used to be in the past , while the most religious places on the planet are third world countries struck by povert, disease, political instability, and illiteracy.

Since the world of Star Trek was an utopia, a perfect society where current day hardships weren't present, one might asume that religion would disappear altogether.Of course an utopia isn't possible, because societies aren't static and new problems andchallenges constantly occur.

Persoanlly I don't see why people need to worship deities. I understand that there's some form of psychological benefit in having faith in the supernatural (this applies to people of all religions that have strong religious convictions), but it seems to me like nothing more that auto-manipulation and self-deciet. Kind of like taking those pills that have no effect, but since you think they work you actually start feeling better (can't remember theri name).

In a modern society, religion becomes less of an authoritarian structure that hangs over it in a formal way, as a form of government.  What it does become is something less formal and more freeflowing. 

As for the need for religion, it is the way the human brain is wired.  People's brains desire to have something larger than themselves to have them have wonder, be able to lean on, and also help them find meaning.  What you have in religion is collective experience that is much larger than the base of experience people have individually.   There is also the case of a group of people collectively needing something for their collective benefit, which may seem to be not of much use on a personal level.  Bylaws in organizations are things that make no sense to people on a personal level, but essential to the collective function of the group, and the existence of the organization is what the individual benefits form.  Tradition is similar here.

Also, the values society has had end up coming from religion of the past.  It has been impossible to remove such things from existence, in the same way it has been impossible to replace natural language with Esperanto.  You may want to look in to Hayek's "Fatal Conceit" for more on this:

http://explorersfoundation.org/glyphery/379.html



@richardhutnik

Seems to me like religion is nothing more than made-up answers to questions that cannot be answered, or may not even have an answer (I'm refering to things like the origin of life, or the purpose of life).

As for the moral aspect, most of our moral background comes from greek philosophers, not from any religion. And religion can't be said to be responsable for any values, as it itself is an invention of humans. At most religion could be considered a tool for perpetuating values, however values themslves are made up by humans. Also one ned not remove religion from existence. Religion can naturally die out, as people realise they don't need religion (whixh they really don't).

And "The Fatal Conceit" Hayek seems to criticize the ideea of planning society. He uses an evolution analogy to why socialism fails. He also seems to think that religions have survived thanks to survival of the fittest, yet I don't really think that most widespread religions have achieved their status because they were the best religions that attracted te most people, but rather through coercion (for example Christianity or Islam).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:

@richardhutnik

Seems to me like religion is nothing more than made-up answers to questions that cannot be answered, or may not even have an answer (I'm refering to things like the origin of life, or the purpose of life).

As for the moral aspect, most of our moral background comes from greek philosophers, not from any religion. And religion can't be said to be responsable for any values, as it itself is an invention of humans. At most religion could be considered a tool for perpetuating values, however values themslves are made up by humans. Also one ned not remove religion from existence. Religion can naturally die out, as people realise they don't need religion (whixh they really don't).

And "The Fatal Conceit" Hayek seems to criticize the ideea of planning society. He uses an evolution analogy to why socialism fails. He also seems to think that religions have survived thanks to survival of the fittest, yet I don't really think that most widespread religions have achieved their status because they were the best religions that attracted te most people, but rather through coercion (for example Christianity or Islam).

Actually, I argue that it is due to prevelance in community, plus force of habit and the power of tradition (just like language) which is why it is so.  It is something someone grows up in and is used to.  And the human mind seems compelled to be draw to spirituality.  People will go, "I am not religious, I am spiritual", and then talk of that.  It is more of a byproduct of how the human mind is wired.  And it isn't the best though.  It is just what seems to fit the most.

Eventually, you get a religion where it ends up being able to adopt itself and modify.  The Christian religion proves itself to be VERY flexible, with an ability for people to pick and choose as they desire, being more liberal and conservative as they like, and explain away things they have issues.  Islam, by its nature, is one man and one scripture, and the basics are so simple, it shows that it can adopt all over: One God only and Mohammed is his prophet.  Then a few others, like giving to the poor, and making a once in a lifetime journey.  Oh yes, and avoiding things like pork.  Then throw in a community of people, and you end up with something that can be part of a person's life, and it works.

Coercion fails to explain why you see growth of Christianity and Islam today.  There is no one forcing people to do it.



Rath said:

Oh the worlds not perfect but overall humanity isn't bad. People just seem to focus on the bad things, there are countless acts of compassion, empathy and kindness that happen. Each one of them is an amazing testament to humanity in my opinion.


my thoughts exactly



richardhutnik said:
sapphi_snake said:

@richardhutnik

Seems to me like religion is nothing more than made-up answers to questions that cannot be answered, or may not even have an answer (I'm refering to things like the origin of life, or the purpose of life).

As for the moral aspect, most of our moral background comes from greek philosophers, not from any religion. And religion can't be said to be responsable for any values, as it itself is an invention of humans. At most religion could be considered a tool for perpetuating values, however values themslves are made up by humans. Also one ned not remove religion from existence. Religion can naturally die out, as people realise they don't need religion (whixh they really don't).

And "The Fatal Conceit" Hayek seems to criticize the ideea of planning society. He uses an evolution analogy to why socialism fails. He also seems to think that religions have survived thanks to survival of the fittest, yet I don't really think that most widespread religions have achieved their status because they were the best religions that attracted te most people, but rather through coercion (for example Christianity or Islam).

Actually, I argue that it is due to prevelance in community, plus force of habit and the power of tradition (just like language) which is why it is so.  It is something someone grows up in and is used to.  And the human mind seems compelled to be draw to spirituality.  People will go, "I am not religious, I am spiritual", and then talk of that.  It is more of a byproduct of how the human mind is wired.  And it isn't the best though.  It is just what seems to fit the most.

Eventually, you get a religion where it ends up being able to adopt itself and modify.  The Christian religion proves itself to be VERY flexible, with an ability for people to pick and choose as they desire, being more liberal and conservative as they like, and explain away things they have issues.  Islam, by its nature, is one man and one scripture, and the basics are so simple, it shows that it can adopt all over: One God only and Mohammed is his prophet.  Then a few others, like giving to the poor, and making a once in a lifetime journey.  Oh yes, and avoiding things like pork.  Then throw in a community of people, and you end up with something that can be part of a person's life, and it works.

Coercion fails to explain why you see growth of Christianity and Islam today.  There is no one forcing people to do it.

Coercion was the initial method used to spread these religions. Today Christianity and Islam grow through indoctrination of children. Heck in my country, while I was growing up, we even had mandatory religious classes where you were forced to learn prayers and bible stories.

It is something someone grows up in and is used to.

This is the main reason why religion doesn't die out.

And what is this spirituality people keep talking about? Seems linke nothing more than chemical recations in the brain that alter people's conciousness. People can be so silly.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)