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Forums - Sony - PS3 Hardware Profitable

Grimes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
UncleScrooge said:

I haven't read through the whole thread because of the heavy discussions going on here so I might have missed this bit of information but does this include additional expenses (stocking, shipping, PSN, etc...) or is it just hardware?

Additonal costs would explain why Sony was still posting a loss in their latest financial report. And it still remains to be seen what the actual results will be if that is the case.


stocking comes in PS3 expense

and this includes it and the manufactury cost and shipping of the console and still making profit

PSN is not included

 

the lastest FINANCIAL REPORT was for 2009-2010 year where sony was losing on PS3 FAT,HUGE PS3 SLIM STOCKINGS,HEAVY DISCOUNT FOR SELLING OUT PS3 FAT BEFORE PS3 SLIM launch

PS3 SLIM was losing very low amount which could be overcome by Software sales but previous losses in the year were too much to recover by PS3 and SW sales so there was loss showed in the FINANCIAL REPORT

from JAN-MAR 2010 SONY started making under-$10 profit on PS2 SLIM HW too

From MAY 2010 end SONY started shipping 40nm RSX PS3's which make more profit now

Hardware is not the only expense however. Marketing, labor and other expenses contribute to the profitability equation. And of course currency fluctuation can also increase or decrease profits.

You are taking limited pieces of information and jumping to a conclusion. That is a poor analysis.

labour expenses,marketing,other were already being taken care off.you think they were just making PS3 till now without labour and other expenses.marketing was also being taken care off.last FALL 2010 SONY had a $200m marketing campaign

currency fluctuations will happen but how much can they happen at max,even if they sell even and don't make loss like before,they will profit atleast

i did not take any limited info,i was just replying to the guy anyways

 

Labor, marketing and other costs are in no way fixed. Especially with the problems going on at Foxconn, big changes could lie ahead.

like that nothing is fixed.these problem are thre wwith all the company and was there with SONY last year too

 

but they have one less problem and the BIGGEST ONE,PS3 losing money

Currency fluctuations can be huge, the Euro has fallen over 10% vs the yen in a couple months.

yes they will make an impact but this happens many time,atleast SONY does have to bother about PS3 losses now





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Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:

 

Labor, marketing and other costs are in no way fixed. Especially with the problems going on at Foxconn, big changes could lie ahead.

like that nothing is fixed.these problem are thre wwith all the company and was there with SONY last year too

 

but they have one less problem and the BIGGEST ONE,PS3 losing money

Currency fluctuations can be huge, the Euro has fallen over 10% vs the yen in a couple months.

yes they will make an impact but this happens many time,atleast SONY does have to bother about PS3 losses now



Labor prices are likely to increase. The Chinese government is raising wages for factory workers. This wasn't happening last year.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-30/chinese-provinces-raise-minimum-wages-to-curb-labor-disputes.html

The currency fluctations impact everything, PS3 is not immune. You don't actually make a profit or loss until the goods are sold. If the currency deteriorates, that means that the PS3 and everything else will bring in less money which will change profit or loss, PS3 included.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

Grimes said:

Ok, reading the original article again, nowhere does the Sony executive say they are making a substantial profit, that is the words of the person writing the article.

He didn't say the PS3 was currently making a profit, only that they will cover the costs "this year" which could mean the calendar year (dec 2010) or fiscal year (mar 2011).

they were already making under-$10 profit in JAN-MAR 2010 period,by SONY CFO earlier commnet.this guy just commented now as they added the new RSX 40NM now which is making even more profit for them from their previous JAN-MAR period thing

He also says, "We aren't making huge money" which means they are probably close to break even which could be a slight profit or loss.

"not huge money"  doesn't always mean break even or just profting,it sometimes mean it is not as much as their competitors like Nintendo and like PS2 gen profits

Now I'm not saying that the PS3 won't be profitable. I'm just saying you shouldn't overread into what what actually stated by the Sony executive.

i didn't overead anything.i have been following there financial situation and reports and comments for a while nowso seem confused as you forget the past thing and just blow on the current comment





Grimes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:

 

Labor, marketing and other costs are in no way fixed. Especially with the problems going on at Foxconn, big changes could lie ahead.

like that nothing is fixed.these problem are thre wwith all the company and was there with SONY last year too

 

but they have one less problem and the BIGGEST ONE,PS3 losing money

Currency fluctuations can be huge, the Euro has fallen over 10% vs the yen in a couple months.

yes they will make an impact but this happens many time,atleast SONY does have to bother about PS3 losses now



Labor prices are likely to increase. The Chinese government is raising wages for factory workers. This wasn't happening last year.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-30/chinese-provinces-raise-minimum-wages-to-curb-labor-disputes.html

The currency fluctations impact everything, PS3 is not immune. You don't actually make a profit or loss until the goods are sold. If the currency deteriorates, that means that the PS3 and everything else will bring in less money which will change profit or loss, PS3 included.

i didn't say its immune but things like this are faced by all the company Worldwide.What you aren't understanding is the SONY is not losing on the PS3 HW parts cost which previously cost alot more.

 

the labour costs are given to a company as a contract so it will be good for SONY as long as PS3 HW costs remain low






To be honest, I didn't even think of marketing costs because I'm rather sure they didn't consider this in their statement, which, to me, reads like: The hardware is profitable now. This doesn't include marketing costs. We also have to take into account slowing PSP and PS2 sales (hardware and software), research costs for a possible PSP2, strong Yen and weak Euro (which will have a huge impact on Japanese companies, as well).

I was merely asking because I remember that last year a website was claiming the PS3 was profitable without taking shipment, stocking, etc. into account. Of course most people aren't really interested in these things, they merely use them to play console war and later everyone was shocked when Sony revealed a loss in their fiscal year report.

Honestly, I'd love this "war" to just stop sometimes and people to think independently. The Playstation 3 is the prime example of what can happen when engineers and tech enthusiasts go crazy and a company stops thinking about its consumers. I've hardly ever whitnessed a company screwing up so badly. When they had developed the final PS3 model they knew they'd have to sell it at a huge loss and it would take years to recover the cost, even in case of success.

The incompetence of Kutaragi and friends let to the lay off of hundreds of people and still endangers the people who are working for Sony. Not only that, the spirit of "let's take a loss, what counts is the vision" and the taking of risks in each and every situation without thinking about the consequences is basically what let to the current financial crisis. What today's enterpreneurs often miss is a sense of responsibility. They provide work but they are also responsible if people lose their jobs. For one person it's just numbers on a piece of paper but for other people its their whole life that depends on the decisions of their CEO's and managments.

I wonder what kind of person one has to be to make decisions like that. And hell, I'm so liberal that people frequently ask me why I wasn't born as an American because Europeans do have their problems with too much liberalism at times. 

Sorry but I really needed to get that out there. It really angers me that lots of people are so fast to defend "their" company. Gaming is just a hobby, it shouldn't dictate one's life and it certainly shouldn't influence one's very personal ability to recognize what is wrong and what is right. I wasn't expecting this when I made my first post here.



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Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:

 

Labor, marketing and other costs are in no way fixed. Especially with the problems going on at Foxconn, big changes could lie ahead.

like that nothing is fixed.these problem are thre wwith all the company and was there with SONY last year too

 

but they have one less problem and the BIGGEST ONE,PS3 losing money

Currency fluctuations can be huge, the Euro has fallen over 10% vs the yen in a couple months.

yes they will make an impact but this happens many time,atleast SONY does have to bother about PS3 losses now



Labor prices are likely to increase. The Chinese government is raising wages for factory workers. This wasn't happening last year.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-30/chinese-provinces-raise-minimum-wages-to-curb-labor-disputes.html

The currency fluctations impact everything, PS3 is not immune. You don't actually make a profit or loss until the goods are sold. If the currency deteriorates, that means that the PS3 and everything else will bring in less money which will change profit or loss, PS3 included.

i didn't say its immune but things like this are faced by all the company Worldwide.What you aren't understanding is the SONY is not losing on the PS3 HW parts cost which previously cost alot more.

 

the labour costs are given to a company as a contract so it will be good for SONY as long as PS3 HW costs remain low




Oh and the whole point here is that Sony CAN lose money if the Euro drops further (or maybe even if it stays at the same level) because production costs for Sony stay the same but the value of the money they get back after selling it decreases, unless they adjust prices (like Apple does, for instance).



UncleScrooge said:

To be honest, I didn't even think of marketing costs because I'm rather sure they didn't consider this in their statement, which, to me, reads like: The hardware is profitable now. This doesn't include marketing costs. We also have to take into account slowing PSP and PS2 sales (hardware and software), research costs for a possible PSP2, strong Yen and weak Euro (which will have a huge impact on Japanese companies, as well).

yes R&D for both PS4 and PSP2 is going on but we weren't discussing that and that r&d WAS GOIN ON LAST YEAR TOO AND WITH EVERY COMPANY IT GOES ON.

Sony was losing on every console sold last year but now isn't which is the main point,even if they don't make profit and just be even then too they will be alot alot better than last few years.and we don't know the the currencies perform,they could change tomorrow at the basic level the PS3 manufacturing parts in CHINA aren't taking any loss

I was merely asking because I remember that last year a website was claiming the PS3 was profitable without taking shipment, stocking, etc. into account. Of course most people aren't really interested in these things, they merely use them to play console war and later everyone was shocked when Sony revealed a loss in their fiscal year report.

nobody sensible was shocked as SONY lost alot in the first 2 quarters of last year


Honestly, I'd love this "war" to just stop sometimes and people to think independently. The Playstation 3 is the prime example of what can happen when engineers and tech enthusiasts go crazy and a company stops thinking about its consumers. I've hardly ever whitnessed a company screwing up so badly. When they had developed the final PS3 model they knew they'd have to sell it at a huge loss and it would take years to recover the cost, even in case of success.

their main problem was to include bluray which they had been working for alot of year,if they didn't then bluray wouldn't have won and their r&d WOULD HAVE ALSO GONE TO WASTE.

The incompetence of Kutaragi and friends let to the lay off of hundreds of people and still endangers the people who are working for Sony. Not only that, the spirit of "let's take a loss, what counts is the vision" and the taking of risks in each and every situation without thinking about the consequences is basically what let to the current financial crisis. What today's enterpreneurs often miss is a sense of responsibility. They provide work but they are also responsible if people lose their jobs. For one person it's just numbers on a piece of paper but for other people its their whole life that depends on the decisions of their CEO's and managments.

stop mocking KUTARAGI,it was not his decision to put blu-ray but SONY's for their future royalties





UncleScrooge said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:
Solid_Snake4RD said:
Grimes said:

 

Labor, marketing and other costs are in no way fixed. Especially with the problems going on at Foxconn, big changes could lie ahead.

like that nothing is fixed.these problem are thre wwith all the company and was there with SONY last year too

 

but they have one less problem and the BIGGEST ONE,PS3 losing money

Currency fluctuations can be huge, the Euro has fallen over 10% vs the yen in a couple months.

yes they will make an impact but this happens many time,atleast SONY does have to bother about PS3 losses now



Labor prices are likely to increase. The Chinese government is raising wages for factory workers. This wasn't happening last year.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-06-30/chinese-provinces-raise-minimum-wages-to-curb-labor-disputes.html

The currency fluctations impact everything, PS3 is not immune. You don't actually make a profit or loss until the goods are sold. If the currency deteriorates, that means that the PS3 and everything else will bring in less money which will change profit or loss, PS3 included.

i didn't say its immune but things like this are faced by all the company Worldwide.What you aren't understanding is the SONY is not losing on the PS3 HW parts cost which previously cost alot more.

 

the labour costs are given to a company as a contract so it will be good for SONY as long as PS3 HW costs remain low




Oh and the whole point here is that Sony CAN lose money if the Euro drops further (or maybe even if it stays at the same level) because production costs for Sony stay the same but the value of the money they get back after selling it decreases, unless they adjust prices (like Apple does, for instance).

but their manufacturing parts of the PS3 costs are down now which were making loss before in CHINA

 

and yes they are working on bringing down the price too

they just included the RSX and are working to include CELL 30nm by year end and other costs are also falling



Solid_Snake4RD said:
UncleScrooge said:

To be honest, I didn't even think of marketing costs because I'm rather sure they didn't consider this in their statement, which, to me, reads like: The hardware is profitable now. This doesn't include marketing costs. We also have to take into account slowing PSP and PS2 sales (hardware and software), research costs for a possible PSP2, strong Yen and weak Euro (which will have a huge impact on Japanese companies, as well).

yes R&D for both PS4 and PSP2 is going on but we weren't discussing that and that r&d WAS GOIN ON LAST YEAR TOO AND WITH EVERY COMPANY IT GOES ON.

Sony was losing on every console sold last year but now isn't which is the main point,even if they don't make profit and just be even then too they will be alot alot better than last few years.and we don't know the the currencies perform,they could change tomorrow at the basic level the PS3 manufacturing parts in CHINA aren't taking any loss

I was merely asking because I remember that last year a website was claiming the PS3 was profitable without taking shipment, stocking, etc. into account. Of course most people aren't really interested in these things, they merely use them to play console war and later everyone was shocked when Sony revealed a loss in their fiscal year report.

nobody sensible was shocked as SONY lost alot in the first 2 quarters of last year


Honestly, I'd love this "war" to just stop sometimes and people to think independently. The Playstation 3 is the prime example of what can happen when engineers and tech enthusiasts go crazy and a company stops thinking about its consumers. I've hardly ever whitnessed a company screwing up so badly. When they had developed the final PS3 model they knew they'd have to sell it at a huge loss and it would take years to recover the cost, even in case of success.

their main problem was to include bluray which they had been working for alot of year,if they didn't then bluray wouldn't have won and their r&d WOULD HAVE ALSO GONE TO WASTE.

The incompetence of Kutaragi and friends let to the lay off of hundreds of people and still endangers the people who are working for Sony. Not only that, the spirit of "let's take a loss, what counts is the vision" and the taking of risks in each and every situation without thinking about the consequences is basically what let to the current financial crisis. What today's enterpreneurs often miss is a sense of responsibility. They provide work but they are also responsible if people lose their jobs. For one person it's just numbers on a piece of paper but for other people its their whole life that depends on the decisions of their CEO's and managments.

stop mocking KUTARAGI,it was not his decision to put blu-ray but SONY's for their future royalties




1) I don't care if you were discussing that or not I was asking because I like to watch this market and I want to know what Sony's financial report will look like and whether that statement was taking other things into account or not. I'm not "blaming Sony", I want to learn more about their financial situation.

2) I wasn't talking about Blu-Ray. I never mentioned it. I was talking about the "Cell" and the inclusion of parts that were so expensive they knew they'd have to take a loss with and I'm blaming that on people who lost touch witht their consumers because they like expensive computing machines. They could've included Blu-Ray and made the rest 200$ cheaper. Business is always about compromises. Being unable to take a compromise shows that you are a bad businessman. It's funny that you seem to think the opposite.

3) I am not "mocking" Kutaragi. You didn't get the point of my post at all. I was talking about responsibility. That includes Kutaragi as well as the rest of the company.

4) Regarding your other post: They were taking a loss "in China"? What are you talking about? They are taking a loss if they sell their products for less than they cost to produce. The way you worded your post made it sound like Sony couldn't lose money at all, just get slimmer profits.



If you can't even acknowledge that Sony or anyone else can take a loss on products due to circumstances beyond their control, and in some cases circumstances in their control, then there is no point in debating because you're not being in any way reasonable.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.