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REPLY TO MESSAGE GOT MESSED UP.  IGNORE.



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REPLY TO MESSAGE GOT MESSED UP.  IGNORE.



TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:

Welfare in the context of the preamble, I believe means "the general state of well being of a nation".  Back in the day, it was believed churches, familes, and communities would chip in.  I spoke on cases where things happen to break down.  If the economy totally melts down, and people are without, the nation won't work.  Third-world nations have issues of property rights, crime, and civil wars, due in part due to economic lack.  What I was saying here is it is important that a nation be well-governed and the general welfare of those in the nation be lifted.  It is key that liberty bears fruit for people.  The pursuit of happiness does also refer to material wealth, according to the context of the time.


It should never be the business of government to chose a group of peoples rights to sacrifice, for the welfare of others. Government does not earn money. Every dollar they give to someone, they first have to take it from someone else.

Redistribution of wealth by the government, is an infringements on peoples rights. There is no getting around that. You can try and justify why it's the "right thing to do" all you want, but in the end, it will go against everything this country was founded on.

For some (like Obama), that's unimportant. For me however, it's very important.

Should the likes of FEMA be dismantled?  After all, who said the government should be in any businees of responding to national disasters that wipe out cities?  Also, why should there even be a military?  Couldn't militias be sufficient to ward off invasions?



richardhutnik said:
TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:

Welfare in the context of the preamble, I believe means "the general state of well being of a nation".  Back in the day, it was believed churches, familes, and communities would chip in.  I spoke on cases where things happen to break down.  If the economy totally melts down, and people are without, the nation won't work.  Third-world nations have issues of property rights, crime, and civil wars, due in part due to economic lack.  What I was saying here is it is important that a nation be well-governed and the general welfare of those in the nation be lifted.  It is key that liberty bears fruit for people.  The pursuit of happiness does also refer to material wealth, according to the context of the time.


It should never be the business of government to chose a group of peoples rights to sacrifice, for the welfare of others. Government does not earn money. Every dollar they give to someone, they first have to take it from someone else.

Redistribution of wealth by the government, is an infringements on peoples rights. There is no getting around that. You can try and justify why it's the "right thing to do" all you want, but in the end, it will go against everything this country was founded on.

For some (like Obama), that's unimportant. For me however, it's very important.

Should the likes of FEMA be dismantled?  After all, who said the government should be in any businees of responding to national disasters that wipe out cities?  Also, why should there even be a military?  Couldn't militias be sufficient to ward off invasions?


Yes. FEMA should be dismantled. As for the military, it's the one area the federal government is required to fulfill.



TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:
TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:

Welfare in the context of the preamble, I believe means "the general state of well being of a nation".  Back in the day, it was believed churches, familes, and communities would chip in.  I spoke on cases where things happen to break down.  If the economy totally melts down, and people are without, the nation won't work.  Third-world nations have issues of property rights, crime, and civil wars, due in part due to economic lack.  What I was saying here is it is important that a nation be well-governed and the general welfare of those in the nation be lifted.  It is key that liberty bears fruit for people.  The pursuit of happiness does also refer to material wealth, according to the context of the time.


It should never be the business of government to chose a group of peoples rights to sacrifice, for the welfare of others. Government does not earn money. Every dollar they give to someone, they first have to take it from someone else.

Redistribution of wealth by the government, is an infringements on peoples rights. There is no getting around that. You can try and justify why it's the "right thing to do" all you want, but in the end, it will go against everything this country was founded on.

For some (like Obama), that's unimportant. For me however, it's very important.

Should the likes of FEMA be dismantled?  After all, who said the government should be in any businees of responding to national disasters that wipe out cities?  Also, why should there even be a military?  Couldn't militias be sufficient to ward off invasions?


Yes. FEMA should be dismantled. As for the military, it's the one area the federal government is required to fulfill.

Why is it required?  Why not merely fund state National Guard units and make sure the citizen soldier is properly equipped?



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richardhutnik said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Yes. FEMA should be dismantled. As for the military, it's the one area the federal government is required to fulfill.

Why is it required?  Why not merely fund state National Guard units and make sure the citizen soldier is properly equipped?


There are many ways the Federal government could fulfill the requirement of protecting the country from foreign forces. The debate about our current implementation and the federal government funding state National Guards is just debating about execution of those responsibilities.

My argument would be it's less effective, but I am sure there are fine reasons why that alternative would be a good possibility for national defense.



TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Yes. FEMA should be dismantled. As for the military, it's the one area the federal government is required to fulfill.

Why is it required?  Why not merely fund state National Guard units and make sure the citizen soldier is properly equipped?


There are many ways the Federal government could fulfill the requirement of protecting the country from foreign forces. The debate about our current implementation and the federal government funding state National Guards is just debating about execution of those responsibilities.

My argument would be it's less effective, but I am sure there are fine reasons why that alternative would be a good possibility for national defense.

I know the answer to this

A professional, volunteer, standing army is the most effective form of defense. Also, the issue with military is that you do need a national military force that can protect everyone within the union. If we only had NGs, the problem arises that some states and NGs may be unwilling to defend another state, which would cause problems.

Furthermore, the types of equipment NGs would be able to procure as individual entities would not be as great, nor robust if they were all parsed out. There would be multiple costly redundancies if NGs were responsible for 100% of military defenses. For example, could all states buy F22's? Would there even be F22s? Many states would have no air force, and the balances of power would be concentrated in Ohio, Florida, New York, Texas and California, which may or may not be strategic at all.

Having said that, though, we do need to look at, and re-define our militaries role in what they do, where they do it, and how they do it. The military is far too large, and doesn't even take on the role that it was initially intended to do - e.g. defend America. In a nutshell, we need all 3 tiers of military. A real, active militia (which we don't have), a strong NG, and a moderate national military (but smaller than what we have now, and concerned with national defense, not offense)



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:
TheRealMafoo said:
richardhutnik said:
TheRealMafoo said:

Yes. FEMA should be dismantled. As for the military, it's the one area the federal government is required to fulfill.

Why is it required?  Why not merely fund state National Guard units and make sure the citizen soldier is properly equipped?


There are many ways the Federal government could fulfill the requirement of protecting the country from foreign forces. The debate about our current implementation and the federal government funding state National Guards is just debating about execution of those responsibilities.

My argument would be it's less effective, but I am sure there are fine reasons why that alternative would be a good possibility for national defense.

I know the answer to this

A professional, volunteer, standing army is the most effective form of defense. Also, the issue with military is that you do need a national military force that can protect everyone within the union. If we only had NGs, the problem arises that some states and NGs may be unwilling to defend another state, which would cause problems.

Furthermore, the types of equipment NGs would be able to procure as individual entities would not be as great, nor robust if they were all parsed out. There would be multiple costly redundancies if NGs were responsible for 100% of military defenses. For example, could all states buy F22's? Would there even be F22s? Many states would have no air force, and the balances of power would be concentrated in Ohio, Florida, New York, Texas and California, which may or may not be strategic at all.

Having said that, though, we do need to look at, and re-define our militaries role in what they do, where they do it, and how they do it. The military is far too large, and doesn't even take on the role that it was initially intended to do - e.g. defend America. In a nutshell, we need all 3 tiers of military. A real, active militia (which we don't have), a strong NG, and a moderate national military (but smaller than what we have now, and concerned with national defense, not offense)


Plus Ohio totally might of invaded Flrorida after that Lebron James debacle.

The American Revolution pretty much taught us why you need a national army along with local miltias.   Or the SNES games 1776 for that matter... fun game.  The miltia groups are very helpful but they work by themselves and won't leave their states.

I like the alternate history you get when you play the UK side.



Ok, so if this is the case, then why is the military the ONLY thing that the federal government is more competent doing than leaving it to the states, and private citizens?  Why yes to military and no to say, FEMA?



richardhutnik said:

Ok, so if this is the case, then why is the military the ONLY thing that the federal government is more competent doing than leaving it to the states, and private citizens?  Why yes to military and no to say, FEMA?

I don't think there is a case against there being a government organization to aid states in dire distress. However, the problem is how its done, and how invasive the process is.

FEMA is an example of a good idea gone awry. Prior to FEMA, the government leveraged private institutions to help out with emergency situations, as they are far more effective countermeasures for such situations, as they don't have the red tape, or bloated bureaucracy that a government institution has.

A good example would be Hurricaine Katrina...While FEMA and the National Guard were trying to get approvals for mobilization and orders, tens of thousands of people through various organizations were flooding into the gulf (excuse the pun) to help with the rebuilding effort.

Personally, I think it'd be better for the government to partition a part of the federal budget, and save it back for disbursment to organizations in case of disaster, as opposed to having an entire governmental agency to do it. It would save on time, money, and flexibility to ensure that needs are met immediately, as opposed to going through various crazy red-tape channels.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.