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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo is living in the past

I've never been so frustrated reading a thread. How dumb can people get? Damn.



 

 

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Come on you're telling me the creators of these nintendo game can't come up with new and exciting characters?  I love all the old time characters as much as the next gamer but I don't want to see 10 years down the line and still seeing the same old same old.  Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and now it's a cleaning rag.

 



Flattery will get you nowhere - but don't stop trying.

Miss Moneypenny

ps.......Only Avatars with James Bond and Money Penny are lame remember?  LOL



Flattery will get you nowhere - but don't stop trying.

Miss Moneypenny

that's a past that I'd sure love to be in, fucking money printing fuckers, I want a share!



amp this is your best thread yet!



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sorsha113 said:

Come on you're telling me the creators of these nintendo game can't come up with new and exciting characters?  I love all the old time characters as much as the next gamer but I don't want to see 10 years down the line and still seeing the same old same old.  Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and now it's a cleaning rag.

Wait, wait.

Look at Epic Yarn.

Are you telling me that if they took this very unique visual design and very unique tie-in to play mechanics that the visual design has, but then applied it to some new mascot, you wouldn't have a problem with the game?



blaydcor said:

@Infamous23: All of those writers are the exception rather than the rule. 99% of books that deal with what could be considered pulp material are...well, pulp. 

A great writer makes the difference. What you listed are great writers.

Same with games: they can have pulpy stuff if they want and still be quality...if they're handled by a very quality developer. God of War, for example.

However, 99% of games that appeal to their audience with sensationalist covers, professed "maturity", excessive violence, sexualized dolls of women and so on....are just that, trash.

It's a hell of a tougher sell to get adults to buy games about apes and plumbers.

Games, at their heart, are defined as good or bad, pulpy or artistic, by how good of a game they are. And that's what Nintendo does best. Embracing gameplay and foregoing market appeal, "mature" image, and demographic targeting is a hell of a lot more mature than slapping a hyper-muscled dude and a nice pair of tits and ass on your gun-and-exploding alien infested box art. 


Well, that's the difference between Sony's PS2 and Nintendo's Wii.  Sony's PS2 strived to have the best games that had violence and sex in them and to have the best games aimed at a more general audience.

Whereas with Wii, Nintendo never really tries to have the best of both worlds but are mainly content to go only with what they expect will sell and keep their old fans happy.



amp316 said:

I know that many people love Nintendo the way that they are, but I am here to show undeniable proof why living in the past is a problem.  Sure, people love Mario, Donkey Kong, Samus, Kirby, and the rest, but Nintendo really should move on to biggger and better things without revisiting the same ideas over and over.  Tired and true is becoming just plain tired and maybe not that true at all. 

I'll show you the dangerous ground that Nintendo is treading on by taking a closer look at the years in which Nintendo is reliving with this year's E3 announcements:

1928.  Nintendo is taking us back to this year by showing off Epic Mickey.  How?  This is when Steamboat Willie was released and it is celebrated as the birth of Mickey Mouse.  Unfortunately, also that same year on July 6th, the largest hailstone ever found fell out of the sky onto Potter, Nebraska.  It was seven inches around and weighed 1.5 pounds.  I don't know what that converts to in metric for people that aren't familiar with measurements in standard, but that's enough to crack you head open violently if it descended from the heavens.  Is this the sort of thing that Nintendo should be reliving?

1981 is the year that Mario and Donkey Kong first appeared in Donkey Kong and both have new games coming.  Also, on August 1st of that year, MTV debuted.  It singlehandedly destroyed music and started reality television later on in it's existence with The Real World.  To hell with you MTV.  Not even Men Without Hat's The Safety Dance can justify your existence.

1986 is the year that the Legend of Zelda, Metroid, and Kid Icarus all came into the gaming world and have new games releasing.  I know what you're thinking.  How could someone possibly not want to relive that?  Unfortunately, on April 21st, Geraldo Rivera opened Al Capone's secret vault live on The Mysteries of Al Capone's Vault.  The show was hyped up for what seemed to be fifteen years straight.  All that was found was a bottle of moonshine.  Rumor has it that it was actually set down by one of Geraldo's camera operators.

1992 is the year that we all first met Kirby, the star of the upcoming Kirby's Big Yarn.  On November 27th, Brett Favre made his first start for the Green Bay Packers.  I have never been right in the head since that day.  I am a Chicago Bears fan, after all.

1997 is the year that the game GoldenEye 007 hit store shelves and now we are being treated to a new one.  On December 19th of this year, Titanic was released.  Need I say more?

Another huge concern I have with Nintendo living in the past is the announcement of the 3DS. 

"But Mr. 316, the 3DS is the future," I hear some of you saying. 

Not so fast.  It's the past...

The popularity of 3D stems from 3D movies.  The first film of it's kind hit theaters in 1922 and was named The Power of Love.  That's pretty far in the past, isn't it?  It didn't really catch on and was extremely rare up until the Golden Age of 3D which was 1952-1955.  Some of the features made from that time included Creature From the Black Lagoon, House Of Wax, It Came From Outer Space, House On Haunted Hill, and the legendary Robot Monster.  The 60's through 80's had a bit of a revival with classics such as Amityville 3-D, Friday the 13th Part 3, Jaws 3-D, and Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone.  In 1985 IMAX came into existence, and there have been several forms of 3D since then.  The rest, as we say, is history.  Now it's extremely difficult to see a blockbuster movie that doesn't have showings in 3D.  Roger Ebert has stated on numerous occasions that 3D is a gimmick when he hasn't gone on at length about gaming not being a form of art.

It could be worse for Nintendo though.  They can't copy their own system like others are which brings us to the year 2006.  Nothing too eventful happened except for the release of the Wii.

In conclusion, I just want to state that you shouldn't live in the past like Nintendo.  You might find yourself enjoying their sequels and rehashes and you might wind up having an avatar of Sean Connery as James Bond.  How lame is that?  Don't live in the past.     

 

do you know how many people live in the past on planet earth?

Id say more then half



RolStoppable said:
infamous23 said:

Well, that's the difference between Sony's PS2 and Nintendo's Wii.  Sony's PS2 strived to have the best games that had violence and sex in them and to have the best games aimed at a more general audience.

Whereas with Wii, Nintendo never really tries to have the best of both worlds but are mainly content to go only with what they expect will sell and keep their old fans happy.

Wrong, that's the problem of the PS3.


No, that's why Nintendo made motion controls. A lot of Gamecube fans were really demanding it. All they do is cater to the core gamer. They never try anything new. 

More seriously. For the record: I consider Kid Icarus a new IP. It has nothing in common with the original 20 year old game besides 2 or 3 characters (and only nominally, at that). Art design, gameplay, everything, is brand new. 

And look at Metroid. Constantly reinventing itself, and this only the 9th game over 23ish years.



Crusty VGchartz old timer who sporadically returns & posts. Let's debate nebulous shit and expand our perpectives. Or whatever.

tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
blaydcor said:
infamous23 said:
blaydcor said:
infamous23 said:
amp316 said:
i



Well, if they could make a game like Eternal Darkness, it would seem that they're much more interested in making Party and Wii Series games and some of the new games like that they didn't bring to America like Fatal Frame IV and Disaster:  Day of Crisis.

They did make a more controversial game this gen, but they didn't bring it to America.  Captain Birdo or something?

HOTD, Manhunter 2, and Madworld weren't made by Nintendo.

If Nintendo really wanted to be edgy there would be sex, nudity, and gore in Other M, but I would say there will be very little of that in Other M in comparison to the typical games on the other systems.

I know about GTA IV because I played it.

 

The underlined part. HAhahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sex, nudity and gore are only "edgy" if you're a 15 year guy or have the mindset of one. There is nothing remotely edgy OR mature gained by including any of those in a game.

In fact, the inclusion of them, especially in the gratuitous capacity that's so pervasive these days, belies more  a lack of maturity than the other way around. 

If anything, making 2D "family friendly" side-scrollers is edgy, since it's not in vogue and is in that sense working against market trends. 

Oh well, I guess you don't consider books by Henry Miller, Brett Easton Ellis, or William S.  Burroughs to be very mature although many critics of literature would tend to disagree.

The edgiest games on Wii this gen remain Suda 51's because his are the only ones that really book the pervasive trend of all Wii games including the 2d platformers that they must all be palatable by all gamers and conducive to Wii sales to the casuals.

If you really want to talk about the edgy 2d platformers that were at this year's E3 they're not NSMWii, KEY, or DKCR, but Blade Kitten on PSN, Limbo on 360 and Rayman Origins.

Is that really how you're going to argue this?

The book part I mean. 

Find me a critic that acclaims a story or book by any of those authors and (a) says it's mature and (b) calls it so because of the inclusion of sex, violence, and gore.

Know what they say? Pulp is sex and violence, literature is love and death. Not that I fully agree with that, but it certainly embodies the critical spirit of the literary community. 

I mean, if you want to argue illogically, don't do it with books. Books are my thing. I read way more than I game. Hell, I write more than I game. 



I argued it very logically.  If you're talking about pulp, then you're talking about Kirby's Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns, because Nintendo had a game in the same genre last year that sold 14 million copies and both DKCR and KEY are just attempts to replicate that past games' success which is what pulp does.

About those authors, they're considered artists not pulp writers because their depiction of sex and violence was unlike any depictions of sex and violence in literature before their time.  Something Nintendo rarely innovates upon because it's easier for them to keep putting out their equivalents of Disney movies each year than to try to tell new and compelling stories in their games. 

Just one example about those writers, William S.  Burroughs was inducted into the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters in 1983, what about you?

Seriously? Do you understand what pulp fiction is?

"...the magazines are best remembered for their lurid and exploitative stories and sensational cover art."  Go ahead and click on that link to exploitative stories, because I'm fairly confident you don't know what they are.  Here, I'll do it for you:

"Exploitation fiction is a type of literature that includes novels and magazines that exploit sex, violence, drugs, or other elements meant to attract readers primarily by arousing prurient interest without being labeled as obscene or pornographic."

For the life of me, I can't figure out what that sounds like.  Kirby and Donkey Kong Country, two series known for their excellent platforming gameplay, or all these new HD games that exploit sex, violence, drugs, or other elements meant to attract gamers primarily by arousing prurient interest without being labeled as obscene or pornographic.

Oh, and it also sounds like your fancy pants authors are far closer to pulp fiction than literature.  For me, I'll stick to the likes of Faulkner, Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, etc.

 

OT: Amp you picked a perfect time for one of these threads: right after E3 with all the new members and visitors to the site who came to discuss E3.  This thread was about eleventy billion times more obvious than mine, and you raked in more people even so, I believe.


That's traditionally what the pulp fiction of the twenties and thirties was referred to, however, many of the leading proponents of that type of fiction are now recognized as leading literary lights of their day.

Jim Thompson, Cornell Woolrich, Raymond Chandler are each considered to have been better literary writers now than some of the popular fiction writers of their day.  Case in point, H. P. Lovecraft was considered by the leading literary critic of his day to be simply a purveyor of lurid fiction.  And now Lovecraft is being published by
Penguin Classics.

However, true pulp literature would have to be considered something like the romance or fantasy fiction genres where you just awlk into a store and see a thousand books with basically the same stories and characters in them but unable to really evolve the genre like Robert E. Howard did.

Meanwhile are the two companies that Nintendo's policies throw them in with ever considered to have really done anything that excellent?  McDonald's and Disney.

Hey, McDonald's is still popular because people know what to expect from them.  You know what you're getting when you buy a Wii Series game or a Big Mac but no one could really seriously lump them in with Fallout or Filet Mignon as far as quality goes.

And, Nintendo like Disney has done a good job putting out product for the kids over the years.  But it took Pixar and some of the anime studios to make animation into a more serious medium for modern viewers.


There is no such thing as pulp literature.  It's an oxymoron.  Literature is seperate from fiction.  The aims of the two are completely different. 

Pulp fiction is a genre FROM the 20s and 30s.  It's not something that exists today (pulp is now used to refer to pieces of fiction that use similar themes to attract readers).  I explained how it worked above.  It is far more directly comparable to today's M rated games that throw sex and violence at the gamer to entice them than the Nintendo games you listed. DKC and Kirby attract gamers with the very essence of video games -- gameplay.

No one lumps a Nintendo game with Fallout as far as quality goes?  That's funny I found url=http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html]7 games made by Nintendo who critics found to be of greater quality than the highest rated Fallout game.[/url]  Oh, some funny things of note: Nintendo created the top 3 games of all time, 2 of them made this generation.  Fancy that!

That's especially amusing considering the disdain with which many in the video game industry treat the Wii.

No, go look it up.  In their day writers like Jim Thompson, H. P. Lovecraft, and Cornell Woolrich were considered to be pulp fiction writers.  Now, they are considered to be some of the finest literary writers of the twentieth century.

Kirby and DKC haven't attracted most gamers with anything as of late except for the fact that NSMWii managed to sell 14 million copies so Nintendo wants to try to duplicate that success with those titles this year instead of coming up with a new game of substance.

If Ocarina of Time had been a PS1 game, then it wouldn't have scored any higher than FFVII and not as high as MGS.  It only scored so well because there really wasn't anything else on N64.  Pretty much the same thing with the two Galaxy games with the glut of the casual ware on Wii.  Funny thing, GTAIV a game you would probably try to tie in with the pulp games actually has a higher score on PS3 than either Galaxy game.

Nintendo said it themselves at their conference.  They're trying to make bridge games.  So far, however, they have failed to create the type of new core games this gen that they're trying to bridge those gamers to.


The issue is with your dating of Pulp Fiction rather than what I said.  I couldn't remember the time period, so I trusted yours to be correct.  It actually spanned from the turn of the century to the 50s.  Pulp remains a slang term to describe fiction that appeals to readers through the same themes as pulp fiction.  There is no more pulp fiction as there are no pulp magazines to publish it in.

A writer is completely capable of writing pulp fiction and literature.  I'm not debating that.  Fitzgerald actually wrote a bunch of romantic short stories for magazines that were comparable to the terrible romance novels of today.  He also wrote The Great Gatsby, a fantastic piece of literature.  However, that does not make all his work literature.  Same applies for all the writers you mentioned.  Just because someone writers literature and pulp fiction does not make pulp fiction and literature one and the same.

You do realize that DKC Returns and Kirby's Epic Yarn were in far into production well before NSMB Wii was released, right?  It's not like NSMB Wii is the first 2D platformer they've released this generation, either.  Platformers is kind of Nintendo's thing.  We had a Paper Mario and Wario game before NSMB Wii.  This is not some fad they accidentally created and are jumping on.  This is their bread a butter.  Nintendo is THE BEST platformer developer in the world.  What's more, anyone who bothered to watch 15 seconds of either DKC or Kirby would recognize that these games play style is COMPLETELY different from NSMB Wii.  Kirby has never been a big seller, either.  It's a classic with the core Nintendo fanbase, but that's about it.

Finally, your arguments for why OoT and SMG 1 and 2 are rated as the best games of all time (Well above GTA IV, I might add.  I dunno where you got that from.  Click on the link, maybe?) are because of a lack of quality games on the systems they were released on?  Ignoring the incredible amount of classics on the N64 and the solid list of games on the Wii, let's pretend you're right.  So what?  Are game reviewers incapable of playing games on other systems?  Great gameplay is great gameplay, regardless of the system.  Even if I play along with your "They've overrated cause the N64 and the Wii had no games" argument, you can drop them five points and they're still well above 90% according to dozens of reviews.  They remain well recieved games.

However, the N64 and Wii libraries don't suck, and reviewers don't magically overrate games for being on those systems, so your point sucks in general.


What evidence do you have that both DKCR by Retro and Kirby have been in development for years?

I think most fans have been expecting a more hardcore / Metroid type game from Retro instead of a game like DKCR.  And it's not improbable to think development on DKCR would have started after the release of Metroid Prime Collection which would have been about the time NSMWii's sales took off.

Also, why these two platformers and not something a little riskier but just as much of a fan favorite like Mother 4 being one of the games annouced at E3?