tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
tarheel91 said:
infamous23 said:
blaydcor said:
infamous23 said:
blaydcor said:
infamous23 said:
Well, if they could make a game like Eternal Darkness, it would seem that they're much more interested in making Party and Wii Series games and some of the new games like that they didn't bring to America like Fatal Frame IV and Disaster: Day of Crisis.
They did make a more controversial game this gen, but they didn't bring it to America. Captain Birdo or something?
HOTD, Manhunter 2, and Madworld weren't made by Nintendo.
If Nintendo really wanted to be edgy there would be sex, nudity, and gore in Other M, but I would say there will be very little of that in Other M in comparison to the typical games on the other systems.
I know about GTA IV because I played it.
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The underlined part. HAhahahahahahahahahahahaha. Sex, nudity and gore are only "edgy" if you're a 15 year guy or have the mindset of one. There is nothing remotely edgy OR mature gained by including any of those in a game.
In fact, the inclusion of them, especially in the gratuitous capacity that's so pervasive these days, belies more a lack of maturity than the other way around.
If anything, making 2D "family friendly" side-scrollers is edgy, since it's not in vogue and is in that sense working against market trends.
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Oh well, I guess you don't consider books by Henry Miller, Brett Easton Ellis, or William S. Burroughs to be very mature although many critics of literature would tend to disagree.
The edgiest games on Wii this gen remain Suda 51's because his are the only ones that really book the pervasive trend of all Wii games including the 2d platformers that they must all be palatable by all gamers and conducive to Wii sales to the casuals.
If you really want to talk about the edgy 2d platformers that were at this year's E3 they're not NSMWii, KEY, or DKCR, but Blade Kitten on PSN, Limbo on 360 and Rayman Origins.
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Is that really how you're going to argue this?
The book part I mean.
Find me a critic that acclaims a story or book by any of those authors and (a) says it's mature and (b) calls it so because of the inclusion of sex, violence, and gore.
Know what they say? Pulp is sex and violence, literature is love and death. Not that I fully agree with that, but it certainly embodies the critical spirit of the literary community.
I mean, if you want to argue illogically, don't do it with books. Books are my thing. I read way more than I game. Hell, I write more than I game.
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I argued it very logically. If you're talking about pulp, then you're talking about Kirby's Epic Yarn and Donkey Kong Country Returns, because Nintendo had a game in the same genre last year that sold 14 million copies and both DKCR and KEY are just attempts to replicate that past games' success which is what pulp does.
About those authors, they're considered artists not pulp writers because their depiction of sex and violence was unlike any depictions of sex and violence in literature before their time. Something Nintendo rarely innovates upon because it's easier for them to keep putting out their equivalents of Disney movies each year than to try to tell new and compelling stories in their games.
Just one example about those writers, William S. Burroughs was inducted into the American Academy and Institute of Arts and Letters in 1983, what about you?
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Seriously? Do you understand what pulp fiction is?
"...the magazines are best remembered for their lurid and exploitative stories and sensational cover art." Go ahead and click on that link to exploitative stories, because I'm fairly confident you don't know what they are. Here, I'll do it for you:
"Exploitation fiction is a type of literature that includes novels and magazines that exploit sex, violence, drugs, or other elements meant to attract readers primarily by arousing prurient interest without being labeled as obscene or pornographic."
For the life of me, I can't figure out what that sounds like. Kirby and Donkey Kong Country, two series known for their excellent platforming gameplay, or all these new HD games that exploit sex, violence, drugs, or other elements meant to attract gamers primarily by arousing prurient interest without being labeled as obscene or pornographic.
Oh, and it also sounds like your fancy pants authors are far closer to pulp fiction than literature. For me, I'll stick to the likes of Faulkner, Shakespeare, Fitzgerald, etc.
OT: Amp you picked a perfect time for one of these threads: right after E3 with all the new members and visitors to the site who came to discuss E3. This thread was about eleventy billion times more obvious than mine, and you raked in more people even so, I believe.
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That's traditionally what the pulp fiction of the twenties and thirties was referred to, however, many of the leading proponents of that type of fiction are now recognized as leading literary lights of their day.
Jim Thompson, Cornell Woolrich, Raymond Chandler are each considered to have been better literary writers now than some of the popular fiction writers of their day. Case in point, H. P. Lovecraft was considered by the leading literary critic of his day to be simply a purveyor of lurid fiction. And now Lovecraft is being published by
Penguin Classics.
However, true pulp literature would have to be considered something like the romance or fantasy fiction genres where you just awlk into a store and see a thousand books with basically the same stories and characters in them but unable to really evolve the genre like Robert E. Howard did.
Meanwhile are the two companies that Nintendo's policies throw them in with ever considered to have really done anything that excellent? McDonald's and Disney.
Hey, McDonald's is still popular because people know what to expect from them. You know what you're getting when you buy a Wii Series game or a Big Mac but no one could really seriously lump them in with Fallout or Filet Mignon as far as quality goes.
And, Nintendo like Disney has done a good job putting out product for the kids over the years. But it took Pixar and some of the anime studios to make animation into a more serious medium for modern viewers.
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There is no such thing as pulp literature. It's an oxymoron. Literature is seperate from fiction. The aims of the two are completely different.
Pulp fiction is a genre FROM the 20s and 30s. It's not something that exists today (pulp is now used to refer to pieces of fiction that use similar themes to attract readers). I explained how it worked above. It is far more directly comparable to today's M rated games that throw sex and violence at the gamer to entice them than the Nintendo games you listed. DKC and Kirby attract gamers with the very essence of video games -- gameplay.
No one lumps a Nintendo game with Fallout as far as quality goes? That's funny I found url=http://www.gamerankings.com/browse.html]7 games made by Nintendo who critics found to be of greater quality than the highest rated Fallout game.[/url] Oh, some funny things of note: Nintendo created the top 3 games of all time, 2 of them made this generation. Fancy that!
That's especially amusing considering the disdain with which many in the video game industry treat the Wii.
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No, go look it up. In their day writers like Jim Thompson, H. P. Lovecraft, and Cornell Woolrich were considered to be pulp fiction writers. Now, they are considered to be some of the finest literary writers of the twentieth century.
Kirby and DKC haven't attracted most gamers with anything as of late except for the fact that NSMWii managed to sell 14 million copies so Nintendo wants to try to duplicate that success with those titles this year instead of coming up with a new game of substance.
If Ocarina of Time had been a PS1 game, then it wouldn't have scored any higher than FFVII and not as high as MGS. It only scored so well because there really wasn't anything else on N64. Pretty much the same thing with the two Galaxy games with the glut of the casual ware on Wii. Funny thing, GTAIV a game you would probably try to tie in with the pulp games actually has a higher score on PS3 than either Galaxy game.
Nintendo said it themselves at their conference. They're trying to make bridge games. So far, however, they have failed to create the type of new core games this gen that they're trying to bridge those gamers to.
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The issue is with your dating of Pulp Fiction rather than what I said. I couldn't remember the time period, so I trusted yours to be correct. It actually spanned from the turn of the century to the 50s. Pulp remains a slang term to describe fiction that appeals to readers through the same themes as pulp fiction. There is no more pulp fiction as there are no pulp magazines to publish it in.
A writer is completely capable of writing pulp fiction and literature. I'm not debating that. Fitzgerald actually wrote a bunch of romantic short stories for magazines that were comparable to the terrible romance novels of today. He also wrote The Great Gatsby, a fantastic piece of literature. However, that does not make all his work literature. Same applies for all the writers you mentioned. Just because someone writers literature and pulp fiction does not make pulp fiction and literature one and the same.
You do realize that DKC Returns and Kirby's Epic Yarn were in far into production well before NSMB Wii was released, right? It's not like NSMB Wii is the first 2D platformer they've released this generation, either. Platformers is kind of Nintendo's thing. We had a Paper Mario and Wario game before NSMB Wii. This is not some fad they accidentally created and are jumping on. This is their bread a butter. Nintendo is THE BEST platformer developer in the world. What's more, anyone who bothered to watch 15 seconds of either DKC or Kirby would recognize that these games play style is COMPLETELY different from NSMB Wii. Kirby has never been a big seller, either. It's a classic with the core Nintendo fanbase, but that's about it.
Finally, your arguments for why OoT and SMG 1 and 2 are rated as the best games of all time (Well above GTA IV, I might add. I dunno where you got that from. Click on the link, maybe?) are because of a lack of quality games on the systems they were released on? Ignoring the incredible amount of classics on the N64 and the solid list of games on the Wii, let's pretend you're right. So what? Are game reviewers incapable of playing games on other systems? Great gameplay is great gameplay, regardless of the system. Even if I play along with your "They've overrated cause the N64 and the Wii had no games" argument, you can drop them five points and they're still well above 90% according to dozens of reviews. They remain well recieved games.
However, the N64 and Wii libraries don't suck, and reviewers don't magically overrate games for being on those systems, so your point sucks in general.
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