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Forums - Gaming - 'Japan can't keep up with US tech' says Cliff Bleszinski

twistedcellz on 09 June 2010
Munkeh111 said:
jarrod said:
Munkeh111 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Munkeh111 said:

Now GTA IV was developed in Edinburgh, with the help of the Rockstar games head office in New York. The writers themselves are based in New York, and so I think it only fair to consider it a western game.

If you look at the list of good selling franchises released by American publishers against the list of good selling Japanese games, and the US list is just going to win every single time. I haven't made a full list, because I have better things to do, but those are the first franchises that come to mind, but the key one is CoD, that alone sells 10 million every year. NFS sells 5m, Madden sells 5m FIFA has surpassed PES. There are plenty. On the Japanese side, most of the big sellers come from Nintendo, and then Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and PES, no others are that big

REsident Evil is that big too!

And MGS4 is basically at 5 Million!

And then we have the monster Gran Turismo!

Thats 3 more I added

You can't just look at individual titles, you have to look at franchise sales as a whole.

So we get a Gran Turismo game every 3 or 4 years, that sells 10m copies, but we get a CoD game every year selling that amount.

Resi sells well, about 6m for the last one, but it is so infrequent again.

The key thing for publishers like EA and Activision (and Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed) is they are producing yearly games which are selling these numbers, the Japanese publishers are taking a few years over each game

GT Prologue also had about 5m, if we're going by "franchises" this gen, plus GT PSP around 2m.  You could also add in the DS/Wii versions of RE1/RE4 for another 2m for Resident Evil.  Plus the Chronicles spinoffs (another 2m ) if you want to branch out more.

And really, if we're doing franchise sales, Nintendo tops about everyone still, even though they don't have frequent sequels (Wii Sports @ 79m w/2 games, Super Mario @ 47m w/4 games, Mario Kart @ 40m w/2 games, Wii Fit @ 35m w/2 games, Brain-Age @ 34m w/2 games, Pokemon @ 32m w/3 games, etc)


I'm ignoring Nintendo mostly, because they ruin everything and I am looking more generally at the 3rd parties. {and Wii Sports doesn't count!}

@ twistedcellz, Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden, Guitar Hero, now Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy and more. They come every year and they sell a lot!


I hope u meant Nintendo RUN everythin and not RUIN

Even tho I see what u tryin to say, games like FIFA,Madden and Guitar hereos are aim at europe and americans, so they dont really count.

cuz in japan theres game like monster hunter and dragon quest that are aim at them and they sell crazy out there. So u gotta see the other side too



Nintendo made me a gamer so I'd be stupid to ever try to forget that                                             like so many people nowadays

The Top  Best Consoles Are SNES and PSX 

Currently Playing: 1.Monster Hunter tri 2.MegaMan 10

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S.T.A.G.E. on 09 June 2010
Munkeh111 said:
MrT-Tar said:

I have to disagree that 'Western Developers are taking over', if you look at the really commercially successful games this generation, most are made in Japan:

 

Mario Galaxy

New Super Mario Bros

New Super Mario Bros Wii

Final Fantasy XIII

Dragon Quest IX

Wii Sports

Wii Fit

Mario Kart Wii

Super Smash Bros Brawl

Brain Training

Nintendogs

Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum

Pokemon Heart Gold/Soul Silver

Monster Hunter

Metal Gear Solid 4

Animal Crossing


Yeah, just ignore the 17m selling GTA IV, the 20m CoD MW 2, 10m selling FIFA 10. Of course they don't quite stack up to the really big Nintendo titles, but otherwise, I think CoD has the beating of most of them, especially given its yearly release


Then he's skipping the top new IP's on the PS3 and 360 made by the west. If you want to find the most Japanese made titles that are on top look no further than Nintendo.



Munkeh111 on 09 June 2010
twistedcellz said:
Munkeh111 said:
jarrod said:
Munkeh111 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Munkeh111 said:

Now GTA IV was developed in Edinburgh, with the help of the Rockstar games head office in New York. The writers themselves are based in New York, and so I think it only fair to consider it a western game.

If you look at the list of good selling franchises released by American publishers against the list of good selling Japanese games, and the US list is just going to win every single time. I haven't made a full list, because I have better things to do, but those are the first franchises that come to mind, but the key one is CoD, that alone sells 10 million every year. NFS sells 5m, Madden sells 5m FIFA has surpassed PES. There are plenty. On the Japanese side, most of the big sellers come from Nintendo, and then Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and PES, no others are that big

REsident Evil is that big too!

And MGS4 is basically at 5 Million!

And then we have the monster Gran Turismo!

Thats 3 more I added

You can't just look at individual titles, you have to look at franchise sales as a whole.

So we get a Gran Turismo game every 3 or 4 years, that sells 10m copies, but we get a CoD game every year selling that amount.

Resi sells well, about 6m for the last one, but it is so infrequent again.

The key thing for publishers like EA and Activision (and Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed) is they are producing yearly games which are selling these numbers, the Japanese publishers are taking a few years over each game

GT Prologue also had about 5m, if we're going by "franchises" this gen, plus GT PSP around 2m.  You could also add in the DS/Wii versions of RE1/RE4 for another 2m for Resident Evil.  Plus the Chronicles spinoffs (another 2m ) if you want to branch out more.

And really, if we're doing franchise sales, Nintendo tops about everyone still, even though they don't have frequent sequels (Wii Sports @ 79m w/2 games, Super Mario @ 47m w/4 games, Mario Kart @ 40m w/2 games, Wii Fit @ 35m w/2 games, Brain-Age @ 34m w/2 games, Pokemon @ 32m w/3 games, etc)


I'm ignoring Nintendo mostly, because they ruin everything and I am looking more generally at the 3rd parties. {and Wii Sports doesn't count!}

@ twistedcellz, Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden, Guitar Hero, now Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy and more. They come every year and they sell a lot!


I hope u meant Nintendo RUN everythin and not RUIN

Even tho I see what u tryin to say, games like FIFA,Madden and Guitar hereos are aim at europe and americans, so they dont really count.

cuz in japan theres game like monster hunter and dragon quest that are aim at them and they sell crazy out there. So u gotta see the other side too

Well they ruin all my arguements. They sell crazy out there, but there are fewer people out there, so overall sell less, and that is what really matters if we are looking at relative success



twistedcellz on 09 June 2010
Munkeh111 said:
twistedcellz said:
Munkeh111 said:
jarrod said:
Munkeh111 said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Munkeh111 said:

Now GTA IV was developed in Edinburgh, with the help of the Rockstar games head office in New York. The writers themselves are based in New York, and so I think it only fair to consider it a western game.

If you look at the list of good selling franchises released by American publishers against the list of good selling Japanese games, and the US list is just going to win every single time. I haven't made a full list, because I have better things to do, but those are the first franchises that come to mind, but the key one is CoD, that alone sells 10 million every year. NFS sells 5m, Madden sells 5m FIFA has surpassed PES. There are plenty. On the Japanese side, most of the big sellers come from Nintendo, and then Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest and PES, no others are that big

REsident Evil is that big too!

And MGS4 is basically at 5 Million!

And then we have the monster Gran Turismo!

Thats 3 more I added

You can't just look at individual titles, you have to look at franchise sales as a whole.

So we get a Gran Turismo game every 3 or 4 years, that sells 10m copies, but we get a CoD game every year selling that amount.

Resi sells well, about 6m for the last one, but it is so infrequent again.

The key thing for publishers like EA and Activision (and Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed) is they are producing yearly games which are selling these numbers, the Japanese publishers are taking a few years over each game

GT Prologue also had about 5m, if we're going by "franchises" this gen, plus GT PSP around 2m.  You could also add in the DS/Wii versions of RE1/RE4 for another 2m for Resident Evil.  Plus the Chronicles spinoffs (another 2m ) if you want to branch out more.

And really, if we're doing franchise sales, Nintendo tops about everyone still, even though they don't have frequent sequels (Wii Sports @ 79m w/2 games, Super Mario @ 47m w/4 games, Mario Kart @ 40m w/2 games, Wii Fit @ 35m w/2 games, Brain-Age @ 34m w/2 games, Pokemon @ 32m w/3 games, etc)


I'm ignoring Nintendo mostly, because they ruin everything and I am looking more generally at the 3rd parties. {and Wii Sports doesn't count!}

@ twistedcellz, Need for Speed, FIFA, Madden, Guitar Hero, now Assassin's Creed, Tom Clancy and more. They come every year and they sell a lot!


I hope u meant Nintendo RUN everythin and not RUIN

Even tho I see what u tryin to say, games like FIFA,Madden and Guitar hereos are aim at europe and americans, so they dont really count.

cuz in japan theres game like monster hunter and dragon quest that are aim at them and they sell crazy out there. So u gotta see the other side too

Well they ruin all my arguements. They sell crazy out there, but there are fewer people out there, so overall sell less, and that is what really matters if we are looking at relative success

I dont know what else to say to u cuz u seem to just think about the ps3 and the 360

like someone said the jap developers works more on the ds,psp and the wii

and those three console have a bigger install base than the ps3 and xbox 360

so for them they not loosing anything

its just that western dev have been rising since last gen but jap dev like capcom,konami and square haven't lost anything



Nintendo made me a gamer so I'd be stupid to ever try to forget that                                             like so many people nowadays

The Top  Best Consoles Are SNES and PSX 

Currently Playing: 1.Monster Hunter tri 2.MegaMan 10

Maynard_Tool on 09 June 2010

Well... once you see that Nintendo is destroying everything this gen.... well, something just doesn't quite match here



03/10/09 HUGE day in my life:

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=63437&page=1

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SaviorX on 09 June 2010
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
SaviorX said:

I'll just post what I did in the VGC article:

He says it like a blowhard without manners but he is right. There is a shift towards portables, and on the console side of things, a large majority of Japanese devs are idiots.

There, stone me.

 

What you call 'idiots', others would call being smart and not taking unnecessary risks.  Why should a Japanese company make a 200 million dollar game based on the 360 pr PS3 when the Japanese market is focused on portables and the American market is so iffy.  Is sure didn't work well for companies like Square Enix, Level 5 and Namco.  Likewise, countless other western based companies have had low selling games after trying to make high budget HD games.  But no one ever looks at those.  You only pat attention to the big sellers like Modern Warfare 2, Grand Theft Auto 4, and Halo 3.

As I've already said, the handheld market is easier to develop for simply because you can make a game for 1/10th the cost and the Japanese market is already jumping on it.  Just because some of you think consoles are the end all of gaming doesn't mean handhelds are inferior.


Let me start by saying some made stupid decisions and supported the 360 with exclusives. That was dumb. Second was developing for PS3/360 multiplatform games and having the 360 as the lead dev console. As a result, PS3 got quasi-ports that suffered in sales due to lower quality. Third, using foreign engines they can't manage (Square Enix and the Unreal Engine= disaster).

For JP companies that complain that the console market in Japan is dying, they fueled that themselves by not actually supporting it enough, and not even making games for the market leader (Wii). The Prime example is NIS America, who refuses to make much besides PS3/PSP games that more often than not, bomb.

"You only pa[y] attention to the big sellers like Modern Warfare 2, Grand Theft Auto 4, and Halo 3."

I don't know what this has to do with me, so I can't really comment.

I never said the shift to portables was wrong, I just acknowledged there was a shift. I said on the console side of things, they are idiots. Whether it is still shlepping by on that old PS2 or making 360 games like masochists, they reap what they sow. And the worst part is, the majority of them cannot understand the concept of 'polish'.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

Kenryoku_Maxis on 09 June 2010
SaviorX said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
SaviorX said:

I'll just post what I did in the VGC article:

He says it like a blowhard without manners but he is right. There is a shift towards portables, and on the console side of things, a large majority of Japanese devs are idiots.

There, stone me.

 

What you call 'idiots', others would call being smart and not taking unnecessary risks.  Why should a Japanese company make a 200 million dollar game based on the 360 pr PS3 when the Japanese market is focused on portables and the American market is so iffy.  Is sure didn't work well for companies like Square Enix, Level 5 and Namco.  Likewise, countless other western based companies have had low selling games after trying to make high budget HD games.  But no one ever looks at those.  You only pat attention to the big sellers like Modern Warfare 2, Grand Theft Auto 4, and Halo 3.

As I've already said, the handheld market is easier to develop for simply because you can make a game for 1/10th the cost and the Japanese market is already jumping on it.  Just because some of you think consoles are the end all of gaming doesn't mean handhelds are inferior.


Let me start by saying some made stupid decisions and supported the 360 with exclusives. That was dumb. Second was developing for PS3/360 multiplatform games and having the 360 as the lead dev console. As a result, PS3 got quasi-ports that suffered in sales due to lower quality. Third, using foreign engines they can't manage (Square Enix and the Unreal Engine= disaster).

For JP companies that complain that the console market in Japan is dying, they fueled that themselves by not actually supporting it enough, and not even making games for the market leader (Wii). The Prime example is NIS America, who refuses to make much besides PS3/PSP games that more often than not, bomb.

"You only pa[y] attention to the big sellers like Modern Warfare 2, Grand Theft Auto 4, and Halo 3."

I don't know what this has to do with me, so I can't really comment.

I never said the shift to portables was wrong, I just acknowledged there was a shift. I said on the console side of things, they are idiots. Whether it is still shlepping by on that old PS2 or making 360 games like masochists, they reap what they sow. And the worst part is, the majority of them cannot understand the concept of 'polish'.

I will agree that Japanese companies didn't support the console market initially and what little support they did throw out there, it was for the one system the Japanese public didn't want (the 360).  However, the shoe is on the same foot about how all developers (western and eastern) put the 'console' industry into the state its in now.  Causing this 'divide' between HD and Wii.  Theyt spent a good 3 years ignoring the Wii and when they finally got around to trying to make games for it, they only put what could be considered less than second class games on it and whined when they didn't sell 2 million like Nintendo's.

Its all developers fault, not just 'Japanese', that the current Console industry is stuck to only making games for the 'HD' consoles.  And unfortunately that leaves Japanese developers with few options.  As Japan hates the 360 and is less than lukewarm on the PS3.

It still doesn't change that fact however that, even after the DS and XBOX360 came out (at the same time), the DS became the most popular system in Japan well before the Wii and PS3 even came out.  And even before then, Japan was shifting to handhelds.  They ALWAYS had a major love for handhelds.  If anything, the PS2 was just a fluke in console sales compared to previous gens. 

So no one, from game developers to game fans, should be complaining that Japan focuses on handhelds too much.  And this guy trying to say that Japan is 'not keeping up with the US in tech' just reeks of superiority complex.  No matter how he wants to spin it afterwards.  As its been said many times, graphics do not make games.  They're just one part of it.



Six upcoming games you should look into:

 

  

Kasz216 on 09 June 2010
dsister said:
Kasz216 said:

Japan is doomed.  (unless they liscense my Engine.)

He may or may not be right.  However everything he said, just like everything epic always says was just designed to sell more engines.


I like it when people don't read a thread before posting


That doesn't actually change my statement.  You know... cause he did say they were wasting all sorts of time and money not using his engine.



dsister on 09 June 2010
Kasz216 said:
dsister said:
Kasz216 said:

Japan is doomed.  (unless they liscense my Engine.)

He may or may not be right.  However everything he said, just like everything epic always says was just designed to sell more engines.


I like it when people don't read a thread before posting


That doesn't actually change my statement.  You know... cause he did say they were wasting all sorts of time and money not using his engine.


I never said I read the thread :/



Sig thanks to Saber! :D 

Lastgengamer on 10 June 2010
Rhonin the wizard said:

"Internet tabloid alert: I said *nothing* about Japan not being able to keep up with the US regarding tech. There are plenty of existing and upcoming Japanese titles that look amazing. I have nothing but the utmost respect for those devs." - Cliffy B.

 

Interesting, glad this article wasn't entirely true.