Amen Amen!!

Been on the game scene since 1980 from 4 years old. Thank you Pac-Man.

Graphics only mean as much as the gameplay you're trying to convey. You couldn't do Starfox in 1978 when Space Invaders was around because processing polygons for that type of 3rd dimensional play was more than the hardware could handle to say the least. And even in Starfox from the SNES the simplistic polygons made it hard to tell one object from another when in a hectic firefight. The graphical improvements of Starfox 64 made this work.

Graphics should be focused more on bringing out the gameplay than just be window dressing. Nobody's complaining about polish but the whole point of improving graphics is to deliver newer gaming experiences. Starfox Adventures was pretty to look at but the gameplay wasn't as inspired.

Art style goes much further in making things look pretty than hardware does. Wii proves this over & over.

It's not hard to understand. When the NES destroyed the old PC market as the profit center for digital games, the PC developers came over to the consoles with their power-first high-end PC mentalities. They were forced to do so in order to stay in business but in the process they were determined to turn consoles into what they wanted PCs to be.

It was right when Nintendo played into this mentality that they started to lose some of their power in the industry. Talking about bits & horsepower & all that technical jazz. Competition first from NEC's PC Engine/Turbo-Grafx 16, then Sega Genesis, & Sony PlayStation made Nintendo skittish & paranoid about keeping their spot. It was what led to the wilderness of the Nintendo 64/Gamecube days. Luckily they had the comparatively underpowered handhelds like the Game Boy Color & Game Boy Advance to keep them afloat & more importantly remind them of what truly mattered.

Starting with the DS, Nintendo got fully back in line with what this medium was supposed to be. The result is the record success with DS & Wii. In Japan, the best-selling consoles aren't the HD 1080p/1080i PS3 or XBox 360...it's the Nintendo 64-graphics-styled DS. The best-selling home console is the "duct-taped Gamecube" Wii. Best-selling games are the ones on DS & Wii with relatively "weaker" graphics too. The same goes for worldwide.

When the graphics get the point across, that's all you need. Those falling into that old graphics trap would do well to remember that the flagship representatives of the graphics fight are putting out Wii-style games in order to compete. They're changing because they lost the argument.

John Lucas

Have they really lost the argument though?  Last time I checked, HD consoles control over 50% of the market share.  They're not changing, they are simply adding onto their consoles with solid hardcore bases and moving into the casual market as well so they can tap into the market the Wii has hit heavy this generation. 

It probably won't work, but I don't see the Wii taking over 50% of the marketshare.

Visuals are just as important as anything else in a game. They are not more important, they are just an equal part of the pie.  Most 'great' games were hailed for their graphics during their time frame.  See Mario's improvements.  See Zelda 64. 

You are right that improved visuals are mostly important for helping aid different types of gameplay. I would say this generation has. Yet you fail to realize that games like Heavy Rain, Mass Effect, etc have all capitalized on these improved visuals.

What I find truly hilarious though is a lot of people in the Wii corner believe that Nintendo specifically shuns high-powered visuals for it's games and does this because it's not the graphix!!! but the gameplay!!!   That couldn't be anymore wrong. While Nintendo heavily values gameplay, they also heavily value graphics.  How else do you explain the 3DS?  However, Nintendo values staying in business first and foremost and maintaining healthy margins.

Nintendo certainly would have made a high powered graphics console this generation but they felt the entry cost was too steep for them this generation.  Period. End of story.  Just a generation ago they made the Gamecube which was a little powerhouse.  Make no mistake, when Nintendo feels that it is financially viable to enter the HD market...They will. 

What's interesting is how Nintendo fans is all excited about 3DS while 3d does not add to gameplay.3DS is all about graphics. 3d on a small screen is like having 5.1 surround sound out of very small speakers.If I want something like 3D I want it on a large screen and high resolution.

I don't think there's anything wrong with getting hyped up over great graphics. It's human nature. We like to be "wow'd". We like things that are aesthetically pleasing. Great visuals are simply enjoyable to look at and experience.

Having said that, game play is still the most important factor in any game. Having phenomenal graphics might sell you a lot of copies, but combining great graphics with incredibly fun game play is what makes a classic game that will be played for years to come.

i concur ninty fans are just as annoying as everybody else this gen. Right now the level of games that are coming out this gen are astounding in quality everybody bitching about graphics needs to stfu and just enjoy the games, i also feel nintendo didn't even think the wii would be so succesfull but there u go. For me the money debate is just as convuluted as the graphics debate, i mean is nintendo the best console this gen because it sold more? i don't think so.

lmao because they don't have a choice XD

me, I found that people tend to hate stuff they cannot have.....

There are no bad games with great graphics out there, and there are no great games with bad graphics either (speaking about HD consoles)

can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not so I'll just answer as though you aren't. 

I disagree because I view Disgaea 3 as a great game with bad graphics as well as the original skate game.

Far as bad games with great graphics Haze comes to mind.

actually if you play PC too, you'd be laughing at how "awsome" graphics are considered to be this gen :p

and the sucess of the DS speaks for itself, fun is not based in flashes of grey colors :p

I am a bit late to this thread...but here is my opinion.

I believe everyone is slowly forgetting what gaming is about not just graphics whores. People that make them, and people that play them...

Few example games like Castlevania LoS, God of War 3 and Heavy Rain, which put a huge emphasis on visuals, presentation and "story" only to serve up most basic and simple gameplay elements which really wouldn't stand on their own without the visuals.

Gamers are getting these visually focused games and are really not caring that what the gameplay is about. So you really can't blame the "graphics whores" for forgetting the essence of gaming...which is fun gameplay.

As much as they try to impress with visuals and story...visuals will get dated very fast and story elements are second rate compared to other mediums (movies and books...)  However, excellent gameplay is always excellent. Go back and play battletoads or Yoshi's Island and you'll still have fun 100 years from now.