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Forums - General - 9 dead as Israeli forces board Gaza aid Convoy

MrBubbles said:

if the israelis had been randomly murdering people like that...why were there no deaths on the other boats...only on the boat where they were viciously attacked?  why is there not damage to the vessels if they had been attacked by the israeli warships and helicopters.   please think before spewing your hate.

It's because they didn't resist and allowed themselves to be captured by pirates.

As for damage on the other ships, it is suspected that Israel sabotaged a few of the ships before: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/01/israel-gaza-flotilla-sabotage-suspected

"Israel gave strong indications today that its forces had secretly sabotaged some of the ships bound for Gaza as part of the freedom flotilla.

Matan Vilnai, the deputy defence minister, was asked on Israel Radio whether there had not been a smarter alternative to direct assault. He answered that "all possibilities had been considered," adding: "The fact is that there were less than the 10 ships that were due to participate in the flotilla."

The comments appeared to dovetail with reports that two of the vessels malfunctioned at the same time and in the same way. Challenger I and Challenger II, carrying 36 activists, were forced into port in Cyprus on Friday evening when steering systems on both ships broke down on the passage from Heraklion in Crete, a campaign spokeswoman said.

Challenger II also started taking on water after the bilge pump suddenly stopped working and an inspection yesterday revealed "very suspicious" faults, according to Greta Berlin, a spokeswoman for Free Gaza.

An unnamed Israeli Defence Force source who briefed the Knesset's foreign affairs and defence committee on the widely criticised armed interception of the flotilla at sea, also spoke of "grey operations" being mounted against the flotilla. No further detail was reported, probably because of the military censorship rules binding the Israeli media.

Both were forced to radio distress signals to Cypriot ports and Berlin said the captain of Challenger I, Denis Healey, was "frightened that he was not going to be able to get the boat in".

"They had mechanical probles on Friday afternoon at around 3.30pm when they were going towards Cyprus to pick people up. They had been travelling from Crete and had been at sea for about 30 hours," she said.

Once in port in northern Cyprus, Healey had to repair hydraulic lines on the vessel. Challenger II had to pull alongside the main Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, on the high seas 70 miles off Cyprus, to transfer its passengers before it limped into port.

The unnamed Israeli officer also said that military planners had considered trying to stop the Mavi Marmara rather than board it but had decided against it because the Turkish ship was too fast.

There is at least one precedent for naval sabotage by the Israelis. Flotilla 13, the elite naval commando unit that carried out Monday's raid, reportedly blew up a ship named al-Awda (the Return) which was chartered by the PLO in 1988 to dramatise the plight of Palestinian refugees. It sank in Limassol harbour, Cyprus."

 

If this is true, then it's another bunch of laws that Israel broke.



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I dont see why we should tolerate the illegal embargo from Israel anyway.

it defies the humanrights



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you know what was on the ship?

25% of what the israel government gives the palis EVERY DAY

 

the so called "peaceful activists" just wanted to provocate israel and they succeded

come on, shio:

now, explain me the following videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Xm8Irz-so&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE&feature=player_embedded

 

you wont, because you CANT

everybody thinks that many jew hater live in germany, thats right, but its not us real germans but the arabs and turks

funny, isnt it?

and the people here are always sad about the dead jews (ww2) and from the age of 4 you (as a german) will hear from the media that the germans are bad and so on, but nobody is caring about the jews in israel and the muslims who try to destroy israel... it just isnt right to me...

i hope, some day, humanity will wake up.. seriously



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 Both Egypt and Isreal have agreed to blockade Palasteine. Its not just Isreal that blockades it, although I do think the blockade should be ended as soon as safely possible. Both Isrealies and Palestilians have commited attrosities against each other. Its just that Isreal has the better weapons. That picture of the palastenian boy getting chained to the car as a shield was terrible, but if it was a isrealie boy throwing stones at palastenians, he would be killed and beheaded rather then chained. On the other hand Isreal retaliations cause way to many civilian casualties.

The Flotila would have provided insignificant supplies. Isreal had in previously years not interviened with Flotilas enterering Palasteine against their wishes, so it wouldn't have been symbolic ether. As for what actually happened in the boat. The videos clearly show that the isrealies rappled down holding none lethal guns. If they didn't bring lethal holistared guns, the headlines would just have been 20 israeli commandos dead, and far more civilians killed when the isrealies would have had to take over the ship afterwards. It is unrealistic and useless to rapple down with riot shields since they could easily be taken before a formation could be made, and a mob with knifes and clubs if far more lethal then a few soldiers with pellet guns. The isrealies came down expecting a few unruley passangers, which is what happened in the other ships, not a mob attacking them which the videos cleary show.How can you take an activist's word that the Isrealis came in shooting, when the video very clearly shows Isrealis holding paintball guns rappaling down into mobs beating them.



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I wonder why Israel is not letting an independent source do he investigation. Who knows, maybe they will find out that Israel really did fuck up majorly.



enrageorange said:

 Both Egypt and Isreal have agreed to blockade Palasteine. Its not just Isreal that blockades it, although I do think the blockade should be ended as soon as safely possible. Both Isrealies and Palestilians have commited attrosities against each other. Its just that Isreal has the better weapons. That picture of the palastenian boy getting chained to the car as a shield was terrible, but if it was a isrealie boy throwing stones at palastenians, he would be killed and beheaded rather then chained. On the other hand Isreal retaliations cause way to many civilian casualties.

The Flotila would have provided insignificant supplies. Isreal had in previously years not interviened with Flotilas enterering Palasteine against their wishes, so it wouldn't have been symbolic ether. As for what actually happened in the boat. The videos clearly show that the isrealies rappled down holding none lethal guns. If they didn't bring lethal holistared guns, the headlines would just have been 20 israeli commandos dead, and far more civilians killed when the isrealies would have had to take over the ship afterwards. It is unrealistic and useless to rapple down with riot shields since they could easily be taken before a formation could be made, and a mob with knifes and clubs if far more lethal then a few soldiers with pellet guns. The isrealies came down expecting a few unruley passangers, which is what happened in the other ships, not a mob attacking them which the videos cleary show.How can you take an activist's word that the Isrealis came in shooting, when the video very clearly shows Isrealis holding paintball guns rappaling down into mobs beating them.

Irrational hatred for Israel.  I mean, that should be pretty clear based on the posting a lot of people show.

Although, I think a lot of it just comes from an irrational hatred of the USA, as there usually seems to be a connection.  Though it could be just coincidental, who knows.

People need to be calmer and wait for facts, and then when they come out, look at them.  People are far too prone to unproven hysterics even when the most basic factchecking could be done...

like the constant claims Shio has made that have been shot down in what probably took all of 10 minutes and a google search for the most complicated. (The demographics of children of Gaza vs other countries with similar birthrates.)

 

Of course if people were more rational this would of never happened anyway.  As the Palestinians would of taken a deal a long time ago, as it's clear they have little to no barganing power,  Israel is only shifting more conservative... and there options and deal is only going to shrink further and further. 

Take the best deal you can get now, get people to stop firing rockets and complain politically for more.  It's so much more logical then using your own people and keeping them in a horrid plite just so you can use them as emmotional blackmail to try and sway world opinion.  

Well, I suppose it's not more "logical" in the cold sense of the word, but it makes more sense in the everyday life sense. 



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kirby007 said:

I dont see why we should tolerate the illegal embargo from Israel anyway.

it defies the humanrights


So is suicide bombing in Tel-Aviv.

Israel would rather be inhuman towards the Palestinians in order to save Israeli lives, instead of keeping the rights of the Palestinians and having Israelis getting blasted into charred pieces of meat every day, like from 2000 to... around 2005.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada



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Night vision goggles and bulletproof vests were confiscated on the floatilla:

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177169



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