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Forums - Gaming - Natal vs. Move:The game of Smoke and Mirrors

joeorc on 25 May 2010
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
Smidlee said:
joeorc said:
 

and the OP's thread was about that..what squil brought in was an opinion on the development of both technology's of how each party which he was trying to say that Microsoft's development software was more complicated than sony's for development which while is his opinion , is just that an opinion its ok to have an opinion. that still does not take away from the fact that we know.

the processes are done on the xbox360 not Natal, so your :

"NATAL is a neuro-network based simulution and prediction algorithm for human movement layered on top of a 3D spatial detection mechanism."

is still performed on the xbox360's precessor not on Natal itself, thus it's not an issue for Natal but on the same token that's nothing anything that Sony is not doing with the PS3 and it's development for processing algorithm's on the Cell processor. both have to program those chip's

thay may use many seperate API's but they still have to go about programming those to do what they need them to do, saying one software company produces more complicated software over the other is just his opinion.

that still does not make it a fact, which was what he was putting out in this thread.

 

 
I would think Natal software has to be more complicated than Move as Move has something very reliable to track. Yet at the same time Natal software can't be too complicated or it will take too much time to process.

it's not so much about the camera's as about the processing!

those chip's have to be programmed. just because you are only tracking one object does not mean other thing's that are going into the same software would not be complicated.

that's trying to generalize every thing that goes into s a software program, and that i think is very wrong.

taking into account one thing but not the other's is glossing over what the software does on a whole. like i said I am not taking anything away from the point of Natal being more advanced than the eyetoy because it is. what I am disagreeing with is the idea that the software is more complicated over the other because we have no idea what each program's are for each of the system's will employ. one of each may be more complicated than the other on any givin software we do not know.

You are missing the entire point.  NATAL is the software.  Sony is incapable of creating NATAL because they don't have the R&D expertise on the software side.  If you listen to some of the MS R&D folks talk about NATAL, you would get a better idea.

o'l not you too..?

look while i respect you and all , but that's just an your Opinion..somehow i get this feeling were no longer talking about game's at this point and were just talking About ..because

you an squil

are trying to make it a

in [general] Microsoft software vs. in [general] Sony software

and that once again is quite subject to each person's opinion.

 

Sigh, did you read what you wrote, because you aren't making sense.  We were NEVER talking about games.  Only about the software behind NATAL.  No games - software.  how difficult is it to parse a sentence.  MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL because they are the only one that has spent 15-20 years and who knows how much money on the R&D behind natural user interfaces.

 

omg...get over your self please.

"only microsoft"...

..now that's just plain wrong and you know it.

For One Microsoft did now even make Natal, second Microsoft has not been the only other company to develop user interface devices.

there have been plenty of companies to do such devices and Sony is also one of them.

MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL....please

that is utter hogwash



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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ramses01 on 25 May 2010
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
Smidlee said:
joeorc said:
 

and the OP's thread was about that..what squil brought in was an opinion on the development of both technology's of how each party which he was trying to say that Microsoft's development software was more complicated than sony's for development which while is his opinion , is just that an opinion its ok to have an opinion. that still does not take away from the fact that we know.

the processes are done on the xbox360 not Natal, so your :

"NATAL is a neuro-network based simulution and prediction algorithm for human movement layered on top of a 3D spatial detection mechanism."

is still performed on the xbox360's precessor not on Natal itself, thus it's not an issue for Natal but on the same token that's nothing anything that Sony is not doing with the PS3 and it's development for processing algorithm's on the Cell processor. both have to program those chip's

thay may use many seperate API's but they still have to go about programming those to do what they need them to do, saying one software company produces more complicated software over the other is just his opinion.

that still does not make it a fact, which was what he was putting out in this thread.

 

 
I would think Natal software has to be more complicated than Move as Move has something very reliable to track. Yet at the same time Natal software can't be too complicated or it will take too much time to process.

it's not so much about the camera's as about the processing!

those chip's have to be programmed. just because you are only tracking one object does not mean other thing's that are going into the same software would not be complicated.

that's trying to generalize every thing that goes into s a software program, and that i think is very wrong.

taking into account one thing but not the other's is glossing over what the software does on a whole. like i said I am not taking anything away from the point of Natal being more advanced than the eyetoy because it is. what I am disagreeing with is the idea that the software is more complicated over the other because we have no idea what each program's are for each of the system's will employ. one of each may be more complicated than the other on any givin software we do not know.

You are missing the entire point.  NATAL is the software.  Sony is incapable of creating NATAL because they don't have the R&D expertise on the software side.  If you listen to some of the MS R&D folks talk about NATAL, you would get a better idea.

o'l not you too..?

look while i respect you and all , but that's just an your Opinion..somehow i get this feeling were no longer talking about game's at this point and were just talking About ..because

you an squil

are trying to make it a

in [general] Microsoft software vs. in [general] Sony software

and that once again is quite subject to each person's opinion.

 

Sigh, did you read what you wrote, because you aren't making sense.  We were NEVER talking about games.  Only about the software behind NATAL.  No games - software.  how difficult is it to parse a sentence.  MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL because they are the only one that has spent 15-20 years and who knows how much money on the R&D behind natural user interfaces.

 

omg...get over your self please.

"only microsoft"...

..now that's just plain wrong and you know it.

For One Microsoft did now even make Natal, second Microsoft has not been the only other company to develop user interface devices.

there have been plenty of companies to do such devices and Sony is also one of them.

MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL....please

that is utter hogwash

Sigh, once again you ignored the important part of the sentence.   I can only assume you are intentionally trolling.  There are multiple hardware solutions for the 3D image capture.  MS chose 2 - primasense and 3DV.  Its the software that makes the product not the hardware.



joeorc on 25 May 2010
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
ramses01 said:
joeorc said:
Smidlee said:
joeorc said:
 

and the OP's thread was about that..what squil brought in was an opinion on the development of both technology's of how each party which he was trying to say that Microsoft's development software was more complicated than sony's for development which while is his opinion , is just that an opinion its ok to have an opinion. that still does not take away from the fact that we know.

the processes are done on the xbox360 not Natal, so your :

"NATAL is a neuro-network based simulution and prediction algorithm for human movement layered on top of a 3D spatial detection mechanism."

is still performed on the xbox360's precessor not on Natal itself, thus it's not an issue for Natal but on the same token that's nothing anything that Sony is not doing with the PS3 and it's development for processing algorithm's on the Cell processor. both have to program those chip's

thay may use many seperate API's but they still have to go about programming those to do what they need them to do, saying one software company produces more complicated software over the other is just his opinion.

that still does not make it a fact, which was what he was putting out in this thread.

 

 
I would think Natal software has to be more complicated than Move as Move has something very reliable to track. Yet at the same time Natal software can't be too complicated or it will take too much time to process.

it's not so much about the camera's as about the processing!

those chip's have to be programmed. just because you are only tracking one object does not mean other thing's that are going into the same software would not be complicated.

that's trying to generalize every thing that goes into s a software program, and that i think is very wrong.

taking into account one thing but not the other's is glossing over what the software does on a whole. like i said I am not taking anything away from the point of Natal being more advanced than the eyetoy because it is. what I am disagreeing with is the idea that the software is more complicated over the other because we have no idea what each program's are for each of the system's will employ. one of each may be more complicated than the other on any givin software we do not know.

You are missing the entire point.  NATAL is the software.  Sony is incapable of creating NATAL because they don't have the R&D expertise on the software side.  If you listen to some of the MS R&D folks talk about NATAL, you would get a better idea.

o'l not you too..?

look while i respect you and all , but that's just an your Opinion..somehow i get this feeling were no longer talking about game's at this point and were just talking About ..because

you an squil

are trying to make it a

in [general] Microsoft software vs. in [general] Sony software

and that once again is quite subject to each person's opinion.

 

Sigh, did you read what you wrote, because you aren't making sense.  We were NEVER talking about games.  Only about the software behind NATAL.  No games - software.  how difficult is it to parse a sentence.  MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL because they are the only one that has spent 15-20 years and who knows how much money on the R&D behind natural user interfaces.

 

omg...get over your self please.

"only microsoft"...

..now that's just plain wrong and you know it.

For One Microsoft did now even make Natal, second Microsoft has not been the only other company to develop user interface devices.

there have been plenty of companies to do such devices and Sony is also one of them.

MS is the only company in the world that could make NATAL....please

that is utter hogwash

Sigh, once again you ignored the important part of the sentence.   I can only assume you are intentionally trolling.  There are multiple hardware solutions for the 3D image capture.  MS chose 2 - primasense and 3DV.  Its the software that makes the product not the hardware.

trolling..omg, how am i trolling?

i am a fan of Natal myself, but i am not so bias to think that Only "Microsoft could make Natal" or that "Only Makes Complicated software"

"Its the software that makes the product not the hardware."

and that is only looking at it from software only, without the hardware the software is useless

software alone does not make the product

software+hardware = the product

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

noname2200 on 25 May 2010

@ joeorc:

I'd consider dropping the conversation now. I'm not sure the other guy cares to learn about the subject.



Silver-Tiger on 25 May 2010

It's pretty easy.

Move is based on a concept that WORKED. Move is the evolution of the Wiimote.

Natal, on the other hand, is based on a concept that FAILED. Natal is basically an evolution of the EyeToy.
And before all the 360 fanboys cry "bUT natal iz something completely newz!!1!":

It is not. It is based on camera recognition. The same concept on the Eyetoy. That Natal uses two cameras is completely irrelevant for the debate.



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jneul on 25 May 2010

To the guys who think they know what they are going on about and claim that natal will be superior because the software will be superior and ps move only does simple sphere tracking?? Really??  Because I for one would love to know what kind of algorithms they had to create to achieve this, and it tracks proper 1:1 without any lag, when natal shows this please let me know, because we have not seen the hard evidence of this yet (on natal)

 

 

 



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ironman on 26 May 2010
forevercloud3000 said:

Ok I was never a fan of Motion controls but I do know that when used properly they can create a pretty interesting gaming experience. Wii was the first to really take a step forward with this but unfortunately to many hardcore gamers such as myself, the technology has been misused only to make mediocre games. Wii Sports and the many other games to hold "Wii" in it's title are the few games that really show proper application for it(although I found the harry potter game rather interesting on the Wii).

Now we all have Natal and the Move. Both are trying to take another step in the Motion Sensing Genre but in different directions. Move is being toted as Wii HD while Natal is something really different from the other two. I would like to know other's opinions on them.

My Opinion-

I trully don't understand why the media is so abuzz about Natal and downplay the Move. If anything the Move is proven. Move is very similar to Wii in many ways so we know anything that worked for Wii could work for it as well as the Move actually SHOWED games for it while everything for Natal seems to just be theorized.

Like, honestly, what is a game that could be created for Natal that will really be FUN??? Ricochet looks so unbelievably gimmicky and just as Kevin Butler said in that PS Spot, who really wants to play a shooter with their finger? "Pew!Pew!"

What seems to be the reasoning behind this to me is the presentation the Natal had. It was a pretty big one with famous ppl galore advertising it. Yet is that really enough to sell a product? Is the common consumer that gullible? I'm not saying the Move is so much better than either of the other two Motion controllers but it does have some games that might make me really try it out (EyePet, Socom 4, LBP2,Ape EscapePS3) while the Natal has shown me nothing to prove it as interesting in the slightest. MS seems to be pulling a game of Smoke and Mirrors with the Natal and simply has everyone dumbstruck over a product with no proof of ability.

thoughts....

Move looks like the Wiimote +...and as such, it doesn't look like very innovative tech, and quite frankly, looks like Sony is trying too hard to capitalize on Nintendo's success. In other words, been there, done, that, not very news worthy. Natal on the otherhand, is something differant and "New" It doesn't look like a knockoff of anything.

BTW Who wants to play a shooter while waggling around a glowing orb and pressing a button...I would much rather have a standard controller than look like an idiot playing a game with an undersized snow cone propped on top of a Wiimote .  Also, aren't all shooters played with a finger???   Kevin Butler is an idiot...seriously. 



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