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Forums - Gaming - Developer says Used Games Sales worse then Piracy

Some of you are comparing used game sales to piracy?????? One method the consumer is still dishing out $$, the other method the consumer is stealing property. Used Gaming is perfectly legal, and as far as I'm concerned not moraly wrong. Yes, used games from the monetary perspective is equivalent to piracy, but in terms of the individual THAT'S AN OBSURD COMPARISON!!! I understand the dilemna the developers and publishers face, and if EA feels the need to combat it then good for them. But seriously, the discounted sale of a used item is by no stretch of the imagination a new concept.

Glad it's just sports games for right now:)



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Soonerman said:
vlad321 said:
Soonerman said:
vlad321 said:
Soonerman said:
vlad321 said:
 

I don't see how my logic changed at all. It's just proving you that you are buying a digital copy, not a physical copy, and you cannot treat them the same way. Again, I want you to show me how you can perfectly make a copy of a Ferrari, until you can then you have very faulty logic. I would LOVE to see you copy the Ferrari and try to sell it. I'd be your first customer in fact.

Oh, I'm sorry. A digital copy is different from a physical copy. Guess what? To buy that digital copy you need a physical medium. But hey, I guess when I buy a car I'm not buying the engine that makes it run!!! I mean, isn't that "intellectual property?" Crap, I just realize the body of a car can be an intellectual property! I guess I don't own anything with a car!!!!

Great logic there. You're still not making your argument why I should not be able to resell my games. 

You are right, you can resell the CD, but not the content on the CD. Also that is absolutely false about how games are tied to the physical copy, there are plenty of games which are distributed over the internet without a CD or anything. Can you distribute a Ferrari over the internet? The engine is not "intellectual property" since it is not an idea but an actual item whose value is physical. If you want to copy the engine you can go right on ahead, but call me when you do.

Wow!! An engine is not an intellectual property. I don't know in what world you leave, but let me refresh to you the definition of intellectual property

Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of creations of the mind for which property rights are recognised--and the corresponding fields of law.[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property include copyrightstrademarkspatentsindustrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions.

I'm tired of repeating myself to you. You have no concept of what can and cannot be sold. Look 2 posts above you. I already posted what the L-A-W says in regards to me selling something I bought. Notice how you keep using the word copy. This thread has never been about copying anything. It has been about reselling games. Learn english buddy.

Let me lay it down for you because you seem to be very confused here.

The engine is a patent, the mark Ferrari is a trademark, and the game on the CD is intellectual property. Huge differencces between all 3, ad they exist because everything is different. As I said, you have EVERY right to resell the DVD you bought from Gamestop, you have however no right to take credit for the IP that is on that DVD, so next time you want to resell your game, be sure to wipe the DVD clean.

Wow. Really? I mean, so we're assuming now that only software is IP? An engine is an "industrial design" and is it stands it falls under Intellectual Property. You're making the assumption that software doesn't fall under this category because it is made with a computer. Big fail.

Oh also, if I were posing as the creator of game and sell multiple copies of it, that's copyright infringment. I never said that I took credit for creating what's inside the CD/DVD. I bought what's inside the CD or DVD for my personal use which gives me  my right to resell it because I own that particular copy.

Not just software, music and movies are also IP. The engine is a patent not an IP. Maybe you need to learn the difference between patents and IP, because a idfference does indeed exist.

Copyright infringement is what happens when you make a copy without a license to make a copy. You cannot buy what's inside the CD because that's an IP, by definition you do not own an IP, the creator does.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

pacman91 said:
Some of you are comparing used game sales to piracy?????? One method the consumer is still dishing out $$, the other method the consumer is stealing property. Used Gaming is perfectly legal, and as far as I'm concerned not moraly wrong. Yes, used games from the monetary perspective is equivalent to piracy, but in terms of the individual THAT'S AN OBSURD COMPARISON!!! I understand the dilemna the developers and publishers face, and if EA feels the need to combat it then good for them. But seriously, the discounted sale of a used item is by no stretch of the imagination a new concept.

Glad it's just sports games for right now:)

Oh so because you throw money at it it makes it less hurtful. What a horrible logic. Just because you spend money does not mean it actually gets to the developer, which is the entity that should see the money.

I hate to break it to you, but as far as piracy and used games go, used games are far worse morally than piracy. "Not only will I deprve the developer of money, I'll make some for myself off his work." That's why used games are so morally fucked up.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:

I hate to break it to you, but as far as piracy and used games go, used games are far worse morally than piracy. "Not only will I deprve the developer of money, I'll make some for myself off his work." That's why used games are so morally fucked up.

Oh.

Dear.



vlad321 said:
pacman91 said:
Some of you are comparing used game sales to piracy?????? One method the consumer is still dishing out $$, the other method the consumer is stealing property. Used Gaming is perfectly legal, and as far as I'm concerned not moraly wrong. Yes, used games from the monetary perspective is equivalent to piracy, but in terms of the individual THAT'S AN OBSURD COMPARISON!!! I understand the dilemna the developers and publishers face, and if EA feels the need to combat it then good for them. But seriously, the discounted sale of a used item is by no stretch of the imagination a new concept.

Glad it's just sports games for right now:)

Oh so because you throw money at it it makes it less hurtful. What a horrible logic. Just because you spend money does not mean it actually gets to the developer, which is the entity that should see the money.

I hate to break it to you, but as far as piracy and used games go, used games are far worse morally than piracy. "Not only will I deprve the developer of money, I'll make some for myself off his work." That's why used games are so morally fucked up.

Piracy - I will make a copy of the game without paying

Used games - I will buy the game from the company, and then do what I want with the game I bought.

 

I see a subtle difference in that one is morally wrong while the other is morally neutral. 100% morally neutral. There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with reselling your game. You bought it, it's yours, do what you want. And that is completey ignoring the fact that in the used games practice, the primary reason for such a practice is to raise money for the purchase of new games. 

 

Hey, I paid full price for a game, and the decided to sell my own property to make money to buy another new game. Damn, I'm worse than a thief!

 



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

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stof said:
vlad321 said:
pacman91 said:
Some of you are comparing used game sales to piracy?????? One method the consumer is still dishing out $$, the other method the consumer is stealing property. Used Gaming is perfectly legal, and as far as I'm concerned not moraly wrong. Yes, used games from the monetary perspective is equivalent to piracy, but in terms of the individual THAT'S AN OBSURD COMPARISON!!! I understand the dilemna the developers and publishers face, and if EA feels the need to combat it then good for them. But seriously, the discounted sale of a used item is by no stretch of the imagination a new concept.

Glad it's just sports games for right now:)

Oh so because you throw money at it it makes it less hurtful. What a horrible logic. Just because you spend money does not mean it actually gets to the developer, which is the entity that should see the money.

I hate to break it to you, but as far as piracy and used games go, used games are far worse morally than piracy. "Not only will I deprve the developer of money, I'll make some for myself off his work." That's why used games are so morally fucked up.

Piracy - I will make a copy of the game without paying

Used games - I will buy the game from the company, and then do what I want with the game I bought.

 

I see a subtle difference in that one is morally wrong while the other is morally neutral. 100% morally neutral. There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with reselling your game. You bought it, it's yours, do what you want. And that is completey ignoring the fact that in the used games practice, the primary reason for such a practice is to raise money for the purchase of new games. 

 

Hey, I paid full price for a game, and the decided to sell my own property to make money to buy another new game. Damn, I'm worse than a thief!

 

That would be great, except that the game is not your property. It's the intellectual property of the developers. The CD you got it on is yours, but the actual game is not. You are literally making money off their work. That's far worse than just making a copy.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

How is giving the developers money worse than not giving them money? You know your argument doesn't make any damn sense right? And yes, if they sell you something, it's yours. They don't own what's in my game stack, I do. Do you use the same argument for CD and DVD sales?

This again also ignores the fact that used game sales help fuel the industry. Many people wouldn't by a console if they couldn't buy used games, just as many people wouldn't buy new games if they couldn't later resell them.



I'm a mod, come to me if there's mod'n to do. 

Chrizum is the best thing to happen to the internet, Period.

Serves me right for challenging his sales predictions!

Bet with dsisister44: Red Steel 2 will sell 1 million within it's first 365 days of sales.

stof said:
How is giving the developers money worse than not giving them money? You know your argument doesn't make any damn sense right? And yes, if they sell you something, it's yours. They don't own what's in my game stack, I do. Do you use the same argument for CD and DVD sales?

This again also ignores the fact that used game sales help fuel the industry. Many people wouldn't by a console if they couldn't buy used games, just as many people wouldn't buy new games if they couldn't later resell them.

Because you deprive them of money when you sell your game, on top of making money off their work. In the end they don't see money they should see, and in one case you make money off their work and in the other you don't. Games are not hardware. Same with movies and music.

That argument about improving the industry is just as valid for piracy. For example, the PSP would be doing far worse if it wasn't able to be unlocked.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

stof said:

Piracy - I will make a copy of the game without paying

Used games - I will buy the game from the company, and then do what I want with the game I bought.

 

I see a subtle difference in that one is morally wrong while the other is morally neutral. 100% morally neutral. There is absolutely nothing wrong whatsoever with reselling your game. You bought it, it's yours, do what you want. And that is completey ignoring the fact that in the used games practice, the primary reason for such a practice is to raise money for the purchase of new games. 

 

Hey, I paid full price for a game, and the decided to sell my own property to make money to buy another new game. Damn, I'm worse than a thief!

 

You are entering in a moral discussion that doesn't matter right now. This is an economic problem.

They are NOT removing your right to sell your game, you can still sell your game to whoever you want at the price that you want. But the point its that the moment you USED your game and it becomes less valuable than the new game (as it happens with any other fisical good), you STILL can sell your game but now the game has less features, that the new owner can add paying to the DEVELOPER/PUBLISHER some money.

Before if you sell the used game for just 5-10 dollars less than the original price (as most big Stores do), the difference was nothing, you got the exact same game, now you receive a worst copy a really USED copy of the game, and you cannot resell it for almost the same amount, without at least telling the customer.

 

They are not trying to punish the gamer who sells games, they are trying to reduce the income of the stores that MASSIVELY buy games for a LOT less money from the customers and then Resell it for ALMOST the same ORIGINAL price, generating a HUGE profit from which the developer/publisher (you know the people that actually worked on the game, payed for the publicity, etc) its seeing NOTHING. As some other user (hellzenvy) said before, those stores usually PUSH THE USED GAME ON YOU before the new game. If you want it to slow down or stop, you have to reduce the profit they can generate from buying your used game for only 15 bucks and then reselling it for 55 the same week that the game came out.

The point about being WORST than piracy for the DEVELOPERS/PUBLISHERS, its that not only they are not receiving money for the used copy, but the store is taking one potential customer that WAS willing to pay money for the game, but now buys the used copy for only 5 bucks less, because its cheaper for him.



vlad321 said:
Do people in this thread realize that video games are not even close to being the same as a car or other such physical goods?

Let's see.

When I buy a new car, I can drive it.  When I trade it in I can't, because I don't have the car any more.  The person who buys that same car from the used car lot gets a good car, but it's not as shiny as the new model year cars.

When I buy a new game, I can play it.  When I trade it in I can't, because I don't have the disc any more.  The person who buys that same gane from the used game shop gets a good game, but it's not as graphically impressive as the new games.

Not even close?