RolStoppable said:
Joelcool7 said:
RolStoppable said:
Let me guess, you perceive yourself as one of the old fans. But actually you are one of the younger fans who grew up with the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube. All the evidence I need is that you are unable to appreciate New Super Mario Bros. Wii.
The Wii is the return to Nintendo's roots. Roots you don't know, because you are too young. The Wii is not a "casual console", something like that doesn't even exist. You say that the Gamecube was a console that appealed to the fans, then why is it Nintendo's lowest selling home console? Looks like we have a contradiction here.
The Wii might still be missing some franchises, but in return it has some that the Gamecube didn't have. NSMB Wii is obviously the most notable example. Excite Truck/Bots/Bike, Sin & Punishment 2, Punch-Out!!, the Artstyle series on WiiWare. Then there's also Wii Sports/Resort/Play/Fit/Plus and Endless Ocean which you already mentioned.
Sequelwise it's business as usual. Some series have better iterations than on the previous console, others don't. It's not like the Gamecube iterations were all better than the Nintendo 64 ones either.
The Wii has more and better first party games in a shorter timeframe than the Gamecube. Of course you don't have to share this opinion, but it's obvious from the sales of this generation compared to the last one that there are more people who think that the Wii has indeed the better lineup. It's very telling when several Wii games will be able to beat the Gamecube hardware's lifetime sales.
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1) Rol I have gone over this with you before. I was born in 1988, I had an Atari 2600 till I got my NES the first game I beat was MarioBros on the NES. I have owned every Nintendo console made with the exception of the Virtual Boy. I never ever said anything negative about NewSuperMarioBros either. I simply stated prior to the games release that I didn't think it was logical to expect it to break 10-mill during the launch year. All evidence suggested that NSMBW couldn't perform that well so quickly. I own NSMBW and beat it week one, I love the game and it brings me back to the days of old. Also note in my post I never said that Sunshine was superior to Galaxy or NSMBW but Mario alone can't make the Wii better then the GameCube. Nintendo isn't just Mario there are plenty of other franchises, saying Wii is better because it has better Mario games is just lunasy.
2) LOL, GameCube may not have sold as well as PS2 but it still sold fairly well among die hard fans. The GameCube was also more profitable then the PS2, does that mean that the PS2 was undersupported. I remember Kezay (One of the N-Sider Sages) talking on N-Sider that Nintendo had a die hard support base of about 15-million gamers which according to a Nintendo poll had purchased every Nintendo console till the GameCube. This research was found on N-Sider which is now gone but it was Nintendo's official forum. Think a second how many early adopters purchased the Wii despite unproven technology and the as you call it lowest selling home console. Also keep in mind sales have been in a decline ever since the NES. Proving as I said only the hardcore old timer gamers purchased the GameCube and later the Wii. As I said new gamers are buying the Wii as well. Now its been said that not all of the Wii owners are casual and obviously they aren't or I wouldn't own one. But the majority are new to Nintendo even on this forum. Ask yourself how many people on this very thread owned a GameCube and has the right to compare it to the Wii? Keep in mind their is a maximum of 20-million core Nintendo fans on the Wii. That is about one fifth of the Wii's user base. The majority of Wii gamers are not Nintendo's core fan demographic according to Kezay and N-Sider there was about 15-million.
3) Seriously your going to credit one of the poorest selling franchises in the history of Nintendo as one of the biggest franchises on Wii. Exite Bots/Truck and Bike all underperformed big time. Neither the hardcore Nintendo user base nor the casual user base wanted these games. Sin and Punishment is definatly a classic to this new generation of gamers but it could hardly be seen as a core franchise its not even first party. Then Punch Out is most definatly a big Nintendo franchise but it only sold a million copies when compared to many GameCube games it fails to hold its own. More proof that the GameCube owners were the die hard Nintendo user base.Then the franchises like the Wii brand are sold to casuals new to Nintendo.
4) I agree there, the GameCube didn't nescessarily have better itterations of all franchises. Jungle Beat for example was complained about alot on N-Sider when it was compared to DonkeyKong64. But the GameCube actually had almost every franchise represented. Just to let you know the GameCube may be my favorite console but I love the old school consoles too, the SNES has to be my second favorite and the origional GameBoy is my favorite handheld to date. I am more indy then you know.
5) As I said prior the Wii definatly sold superior to the GameCube and Nintendo has had much more success with its software. But these are not Nintendo's core user base, they aren't the fans or hardcore gamers they are new to Nintendo or casuals. Lets put it this way the PS2/PSOne outsold SNES/N64/GameCube combined does that mean that Sony was a superior company to Nintendo? Did it mean that Sony had better games on their platforms then Nintendo?
6) Its hard to read you Rol often I have heard you trumpeted as the number one Nintendo fan on VGChartz, yet you sell things by numbers and not quality. Just because their is a large quantity does not nescessarily mean quality. Look at my origional comparisons of franchises the GameCube games versus the Wii counterparts, yes the Wii counter parts outsold the GameCube counter parts but the majority of the Wii purchases were made by gamers who never owned a GameCube.
7) Personal question, you ridicule me for being a young gamer but I grew up on the Nintendo classics and up until 360 never owned a competitors system. I am a through and through Nintendo supporter. Were you even on N-Sider? did you actually own all the old consoles you critisize me about not playing? Did you own a VirtualBoy? did you own the old Game&Watch's? Did you buy Mario on the Atari 2600? did you pile quarters into Donkey Kong at the local arcade?
8) Or are you all talk, I find it very offensive to critisize me for being younger then you, you say I don't know the classics like you supposedly do. Did you ever play the Great Gianna Sisters (Mario's first clone/rip off) on the Commodore64. Did you own/play a Coleco Vision, Magnovox, Intellivision?
9) Just how long have you been gaming. I have played everything their is back to the days of Ralph Baer. I may have been born in the 80's but I am a hardcore gamer through and through. Of course I am not a Sony expert as after the NES I was a loyal Nintendo purchaser not purchasing any competitors platforms. So maybe I am a Nintendo gamer first and foremost but as Kezay said Nintendo gamers are the reason the GameCube was profitable to begin with, its the reason Nintendo's around today. Because of gamers like me.
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I'll be doing this with numbers, because some colors are just hard to read.
1) I guess you meant Super Mario Bros. was the first game you beat, because Mario Bros. pretty much goes on forever. But no, there was no evidence that suggested that NSMB Wii wouldn't sell 10m within a year. The sales history of 2D Mario, including NSMB on the DS which sold about 10m copies within its first year, combined with the popularity of the Wii made it a sure thing that NSMB Wii would be big. Of course Nintendo is more than just Mario, but 2D Mario is the biggest thing they got and it wasn't on the Gamecube. That's like Xbox without Halo or PlayStation without Gran Turismo for an entire generation. 3D Mario is not the same game.
2) The Gamecube wasn't more profitable than the PS2, it was Nintendo as a whole which includes their handhelds. Defining "core Nintendo fans" as people who owned every Nintendo console is nice and all, but you are completely ignoring people coming back to Nintendo. There were more than 60m people who owned a NES and up until the Gamecube era Nintendo's consumer base shrinked to a little over 20m. There are good reasons why former Nintendo fans left Nintendo consoles and there are just as many reasons why they came back this generation. Nintendo was losing fans for three generations straight prior to the Wii which is proof that Nintendo did something wrong and did not cater as much to their fans as you want to believe.
3) Most of the games you brought up aren't exactly hot sellers either. They barely broke a million (if at all), so they are by no means key franchises as you put it. Now you go on to make the same mistake as always: you try to seperate everything into "hardcore" and "casual". It can't possibly be that core Nintendo fans bought and like Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit, right?
4) "More indy than you know", I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
5) Again, you are completely forgetting about the people returning to Nintendo. And yes, PS1/2 outselling Nintendo consoles means that Sony had a superior lineup. Pretend you are a fan of JRPGs, would you buy a Nintendo 64 or PS1? A Gamecube or PS2? Doesn't seem to be a hard decision to make and the same applied to most other genres too at that time.
6) Obviously sales doesn't always equal to quality, I am not saying otherwise. Somehow you manage to make it look like a bad thing that the Wii exceeded the Gamecube's lifetime sales.
7) You are probably too much of a Nintendo supporter for your own good. You always are dismissive of people who own a Wii, but not a Gamecube. You label them as casuals which going by the contexts of your posts means as much as people who know nothing about games. But by the way you talk, you are actually the clueless one. This is another opportunity to remind you of your NSMB Wii prediction, not only did it fail hard but you also called people for disagreeing with you fanboys and delusional. There seems to be a strong disconnect between what you think Nintendo is and what Nintendo actually is, that's the reason why I ridicule you. Another example would be your thread about how Nintendo's next console having to focus on technology instead of entertainment value.
8) Regarding your questions: No, I wasn't on N-Sider, I am European. I own all Nintendo home consoles, GBC, GBA, DS. No, I don't own a Virtual Boy, I am European. It was never released over here and I don't collect for the sake of collecting. I only played a few Game & Watch devices, but never owned one myself. No, I didn't buy Mario on the Atari and I didn't play Donkey Kong in the arcades (being European and living in Austria is my excuse once again). No Great Giana Sisters, no Colecovision, no Intellivision. I played a Magnavox 2 though. Video games just weren't easy to get a hold of in the '80s over here as they were very expensive.
9) I've been gaming for over 20 years now and had experience with every major console from the NES onwards. Magnavox 2 games were mostly clones of popular games on other consoles at the time, so I have a good idea how gaming on consoles was before the NES.
You are taking wrong pride from having supported Nintendo through all the years. You think it's thanks to you that Nintendo is still making games and that those people who bought a Wii, but not a Gamecube are worth less than you. You complain about how Nintendo doesn't cater solely to your needs now, but what about all the people Nintendo abandoned in previous generations, including the Gamecube era (prime example: 2D Mario)? Do they not have a right to get games they want to buy?
Titles like Wii Sports aren't new, it's just Nintendo picking up where they left off in the early SNES days. The NES had sports games from Nintendo like Tennis, Golf and Baseball. Sure, you couldn't care less for these games, but apparently many people do and that's why they came back to Nintendo. The Wii is the first Nintendo home console to outsell its predecessor, that certainly must mean that Nintendo is doing something right.
And I like it.
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Sequel I want the most :
