starcraft said: MikeB said: @ Chrizum Are you a preteen? You made a topic, specialized to avoid any mention of America or Japan that would damage the PS3 promotion you're attempting to achieve. He just wanted to keep you within the bounds of your own topic, attach rates. Insults are not welcome on these forums.

Nice!

 

And i love the excuse "The 360 had a one year head star wahhh".. So what? PS3 is a better value.

They both have their advantages and their own disadvantages.

 

 

ironman said: makingmusic476 said: ironman said: Torillian said: he was banned for three days for that exact comment.  This is probably why people always seem to have misconceptions about one group or another getting away with more from the moderators, they make assumptions without all the facts.  We've seen him get away with worse, that is why the assumption was made.    @ TWR you cannot say software sales are an attach rate. it just doesn't work that way. The attach rate is determined directly by software sales... That's horribly innacurate way of determining attach rates. Looking at actually console sales would paint a better picture.

What the hell are you talking about?... first of all, while both attach rate and ratio are used to mean the same thing, i generally view them seperate... but both are simple mathematical calculations based on hardware and software sales.

The attach ratio is exactly that... Software sales divided by hardware sales.

The attach rate is a term often used to mean the same thing as above, but to me it simply adds a time into the equation..... thus attach rate = software sales divided by hardware sales for a given length of time.... referring back to my earlier post my simplified example showed that both X360 and PS3 had the exact same attach rate, but due to extra time on the market the X360s attach ratio was higher.

 

Attach ratio = Software/hardware

Attach rate = (software/hardware)/time period

 

What exactly is your definition of attach rate/ratio.

fuck the attach rate, its the hardware sales and software sales NOW that are important.

shepard said: Congrats to Sony. Being now profitable on PS3 hardware AND outselling 360 now in software too despite the higher installed base is quite an achievement. Looks like PS3 owners are the ones buying games after all. ;) MS needs Natal as soon as possible to try to turn the tide before it's too late for the 360. In hardware sales the situation is even worse for MS, last week 360 was even outsold by the 'dead' PSP worldwide...

yea apparently the psp is completely dead with those sales but the 360 is very successfull with the same sales.

So last fiscal year the PS3 sold more software than the XBox 360 despite Sony so far sold 4.47 million PS3s to retail than the XBox 360 shipped.

But the XBox 360's best year of software sales was during Sony's fiscal year 2009 when the XBox 360 sold 105 million software units and the PS3 sold a little less with 103.7 million software units.

If we compare the install bases for that year, the PS3 was at 22.7 million units sold to retail. The XBox 360 at the time was at 30.2 million units:

So 105 / 30.2 = 3.48 for the XBox 360
And 103.7 / 22.7 = 4.57 for the PS3

So that's why I stated that year PS3 owners buy relatively more software compared to XBox 360 owners, sadly I got flamed for saying something insightful by the usual suspects back then as well.

MikeB said: So last fiscal year the PS3 sold more software than the XBox 360 despite Sony so far sold 4.47 million PS3s to retail than the XBox 360 shipped. But the XBox 360's best year of software sales was during Sony's fiscal year 2009 when the XBox 360 sold 105 million software units and the PS3 sold a little less with 103.7 million software units. If we compare the install bases for that year, the PS3 was at 22.7 million units sold to retail. The XBox 360 at the time was at 30.2 million units: So 105 / 30.2 = 3.48 for the XBox 360 And 103.7 / 22.7 = 4.57 for the PS3 So that's why I stated that year PS3 owners buy relatively more software compared to XBox 360 owners, sadly I got flamed for saying something insightful by the usual suspects back then as well.

Why don't you stick to the facts instead of constantly trolling other users on this site MikeB.  Honestly a lot of people would respect and listen to your opinion more if you didn't insist on constantly acting in this manner.  It's rather childish sometimes and detracts from some of the valid points you raise.  You get flamed because you incite people to do so and then act the innocent party, thankfully you've been moderated for it recently.

Of course if you compare year on year you will get massively different results, the only valid comparison is total sales LTD.  Comparing year on year completely wipes off what was frankly pitiful software sales for the PS3 in 2007, that is called cherry picking.  the 360 has had a weaker catalogue arguably over the last year than the PS3 (every Sony fan on this site claims the PS3 library is better) so it must perform better in comparison this individual year or the console may as well be dead and buried.

MikeB said: So last fiscal year the PS3 sold more software than the XBox 360 despite Sony so far sold 4.47 million PS3s to retail than the XBox 360 shipped. But the XBox 360's best year of software sales was during Sony's fiscal year 2009 when the XBox 360 sold 105 million software units and the PS3 sold a little less with 103.7 million software units. If we compare the install bases for that year, the PS3 was at 22.7 million units sold to retail. The XBox 360 at the time was at 30.2 million units: So 105 / 30.2 = 3.48 for the XBox 360 And 103.7 / 22.7 = 4.57 for the PS3 So that's why I stated that year PS3 owners buy relatively more software compared to XBox 360 owners, sadly I got flamed for saying something insightful by the usual suspects back then as well.

And where did you get the X360 software shipments from?

@ slowmo

I think you and others are being childish, XBox fans here destroyed a lot of good discussions, be that technical or sales discussions.

With the 1 year headstart for the XBox 360 in Japan and the US and a 1 year and 4 months headstart in PAL regions (2 extra holidays seasons in the past for the XBox 360) and more in other parts of the world that would a distorted picture.

What matters to software companies is not a headstart a platform in a distant past had on the market but how much software they can expect to sell now on a platform and the data clearly shows the PS3 has siginificantly beaten the XBox 360 on software sales last year despite 4.47 million fewer units on the market.

Even in the XBox 360's best year of software sales PS3 software relatively outsold the XBox 360 despite a very large install base gap. Yet total sales were virtually identical.

At the end of this fiscal year the PS3 install base is anticipated to have overtaken the XBox 360's total install base, so if you were a software company and you would start developing a software project today (which is done at the end of this fiscal year), considering all the data, which platform would be more interesting to you? (try to reason as a businessman when answering this question)

TWRoO said: MikeB said: So last fiscal year the PS3 sold more software than the XBox 360 despite Sony so far sold 4.47 million PS3s to retail than the XBox 360 shipped. But the XBox 360's best year of software sales was during Sony's fiscal year 2009 when the XBox 360 sold 105 million software units and the PS3 sold a little less with 103.7 million software units. If we compare the install bases for that year, the PS3 was at 22.7 million units sold to retail. The XBox 360 at the time was at 30.2 million units: So 105 / 30.2 = 3.48 for the XBox 360 And 103.7 / 22.7 = 4.57 for the PS3 So that's why I stated that year PS3 owners buy relatively more software compared to XBox 360 owners, sadly I got flamed for saying something insightful by the usual suspects back then as well. And where did you get the X360 software shipments from?

I tracked fiscal year / quarter reports in the past when I made those statements, but the Source wrote a summary here (used it for quick reference this time):

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=108718&page=1

MikeB said: TWRoO said: MikeB said: So last fiscal year the PS3 sold more software than the XBox 360 despite Sony so far sold 4.47 million PS3s to retail than the XBox 360 shipped. But the XBox 360's best year of software sales was during Sony's fiscal year 2009 when the XBox 360 sold 105 million software units and the PS3 sold a little less with 103.7 million software units. If we compare the install bases for that year, the PS3 was at 22.7 million units sold to retail. The XBox 360 at the time was at 30.2 million units: So 105 / 30.2 = 3.48 for the XBox 360 And 103.7 / 22.7 = 4.57 for the PS3 So that's why I stated that year PS3 owners buy relatively more software compared to XBox 360 owners, sadly I got flamed for saying something insightful by the usual suspects back then as well. And where did you get the X360 software shipments from? I tracked fiscal year / quarter reports in the past when I made those statements, but the Source wrote a summary here (used it for quick reference this time): http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=108718&page=1

Now that is where this whole thing is flawed.... Microsoft doesn't give shipment data in their reports for total software, the only thing they have given is a mention of the NPD attach ratio.

The Source himself said this:
---"We don't have sold X360 shipment information, but my guess it has a high-6 attach rate worldwide (its ~5 ish in EMEA and Japan going by our data) so Wii + PS3 + X360 SW has likely peaked too. My guess is it has gone something like this"---

I'm also not sure why The Source used the European data from VGC as a good measure of what the X360 attach ratio (still sales) will be here, given that we know it is still incomplete.

---

There is also the problem of you comparing it to shipment data... for example, the X360 attach ratio for the USA for NPD is 8.8 if I recall correctly, the VGC figure for Japan will be accurate enough, but sales there are small enough not to make much difference anyway... but the VGC figure for "other" regions is currently just 6 (The Source said ~5 for some reason, not sure why).

By shipment figures for Nintendo Wii, it's attach ratios are 8.9 in Americas, and a 7.3 in "other" regions.... I may be a Wii fan but I harbor no dillusions as to it's attach ratios being higher than the X360 (especially not by so much in Europe)

Those figures should hopefully show you how innaccurate it is to compare sales attach ratios and shipment attach ratios.... thinking about it logically, the stock levels of games are far far higher than that of consoles. A general estimate on this website is about 1 million X360s "in stock" at one time (I think this can easily go between 500k and 1.5 million without anyone noticing the difference in stores) if there are 1 million console units floating about, yet generally a single store (i'm thinking GAME in UK here, perhaps American stores are bigger) will not hold more than a dozen or so units, but they hold a LOT more than 8* the number of X360 games (or whatever multiplier is the current sales attach ratio)

---

What you should be doing is comparing two like sources (which without paying for NPD and GfK stuff will just leave VGChartz) for which the X360.

Both consoles actually have very similar attach rates though (games/system/average time of ownership) which is a far better metric as it helps eliminate the advantage the X360 has from the year headstart.