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Forums - Sales - Market Meltdown, Dow crashing!

Ail said:
yanamaster said:
Spagoodle said:
The Greeks are in a lot of trouble. This bail out gives them some time, like a couple years, but in the end they are going to have to default or restructure some of this debt. The reason they got the bail out is due to chain reaction it would cause if Greece was forced to default. Country's like Spain, who are also are running big deficit compared to their GDP would then see a run on their banks. Pretty much if Greece fails people will start to lose confidence in the Euro and everyone will take their money out the bank system in these country's and stick it in German bonds. At this point Germany is really holding the EU together, at least economically. If the Germans pull out of the Eu its going to be a disaster for for the rest of the country's in the EU.

Well all you wrote is true but here is the good part:

Greece was promised this 110b euro bailout if they pass a restructure package that would guarantee economic stability for the next years. Obviously since they received the money that means that package was passed in the parliament.

 

Personally i think that sooner or later the Eu will have to become more like the united states to make sure that a similar crisis doesn't happen again.

And how exactly is the united states safe from such a crisis ?

Did you follow the issues California has had with its deficit these last 2 years?

I didn't say like the Us but more like the US. Basically i want the eurozone to become one solid economical being but without individual state economical independance. Doing so will enable easier correction methods in economical anomalies like this. Besides, americas problem with California is a whole nother bucket of mud altogether. And you have the deregulation of your energy market in that state to thank for. How much did California lose before the gov finally set a cap on energy prices? 30 billion dollars? The current deficit problems of California today are the offspring of what happened 8-10 years ago.

If i lose access to this profile as well....I'm done with this site.....You've been warned!!.....whoever you are...

Happy Wii60 user. Me and my family are a perfect example of where hardcore meets casual and together mutate into something awesome.

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yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Well it must be said that what's happening to the euro and to greece is the fault of Goldman Sachs as they were the company to approach Greece in 2000 offering to touch up their general fiscal results so that greece could enter the Euro zone more quickly. This procedure was carried out for a couple years and resembled what Enron did with their mark to market accounting scheme, only the other way around. Instead of adding in profits that may have not ever be realized Greece kept pushing some losses to future years so that they would be spotless in the short term.

The situation would ridiculously easy to handle if it were not for the Euro. Under normal circumstances Greece would have just devaluated their currency by some 40-50% and everything would be okay. Now they have to take the long hard way around the subject...all thanks to their impatience.

You gotta be kidding. Every country knows that there are tricks to borrow money and fix the numbers to fool the public. It's Greece' fault they got into this situation and no one else's.

Actually Greece should be punished for fooling the whole EU by fixing and hiding their deficit. Now the crysis is perhaps punishment enough for them, and I have sympath with the innocent Greeks, but let's not blame others for a corrupt society's faults.

i am not kidding you, Greece had already confirmed this information as true, just type into google and find it for yourself. Goldman Sachs using swaps helped mask Greeces huge debts for a very long time.

and don't be naive. Hiding money of a country is not something a a highschooler can do and get away with it. I'm not so sure if you shouldn't put in the same league as Enron.

Of course Goldman Sachs did something wrong and immoral. Of course it's true that they offered a deal! But that doesn't mean the deficit and Greek crysis is their fault. There's always crooks out there who will help you to fix your numbers if you want to borrow money. They offer deals all the time to potential customers.

It's you who are naive. It's like it's perfectly normal for you that a modern civilized nation's government acts like children and accepts any immoral deal from banks that tease with promises to fix and polish your financial accounts?

The Polish did the right thing. They were responsible. The Greek were not.

And your whole post is supposed be about what? Because it doesn't make any sense to just say that it's the fault of Greece, you didn't reinvent the wheel claiming this and notice that that i not once claimed that Greece is not at fault, i simply am showing that there's always the other side to the deals and that other side is Goldman sachs which has been playing with currencies in europe like crazy over the past decade.

Poland over the last year had and incredible swing in the strength of the Polish zloty going from a 1:2 ration per US dollar to even a 1:4 ratio. Over a single year where our economy is the steadiest and well paced in the region. And you know what? it turns out that Goldman Sachs was playing with our currency, betting that it will strengthen and then weaken. So first they buy out our currency in massive quantities and then just as so sell them.

Normally i wouldn't have a problem but these companies are not operating on a small scale but on macro scales. Because of their "games" the export sector is in shambles not to mention that potential investors are afraid to come in saying that Poland is not steady enough, but just how is a country like Poland supposed to fend of a company like Goldman Sachs?

And where the hell did that third paragraph of yours come from? Who said that it's normal? Where? You really went way to far with presumptions on this one my friend. The fact of the matter is that a country by itself does not have the ability to move such large amounts of money without being noticed ( we're talking about 15 b euro here). Goldman Sachs decided to offer their services and the greek gave in to stupidity, that i completely agree on. All i'm saying is look at Goldman Sachs as huge contributor to the current situation.

Could have Greece done something before it got out of control? Sure. Did they expect a crisis to hit them and hit them so hard......hah. They gambled. And they decided to do it at the worst time possible.

I don't know, maybe we're from different planets. Different countries at least lol.

The Swedish economy is actually smaller than Polands. But Goldman Sachs can't do shit to us. And taking a suspicous deal from them to hide the state of your rotten economy would just be something beyond the wildest dreams for any Swedish politician. It just can't happen. And if it did we certainly wouldn't blame any international bankers. It would be the biggest political scandal in Swedish history without any comparison.

I am almost thinking that it's no wonder that our economy is so stable when we have such different mentality compared to people so close as the other side of the Baltic sea.



Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:

 

And your whole post is supposed be about what? Because it doesn't make any sense to just say that it's the fault of Greece, you didn't reinvent the wheel claiming this and notice that that i not once claimed that Greece is not at fault, i simply am showing that there's always the other side to the deals and that other side is Goldman sachs which has been playing with currencies in europe like crazy over the past decade.

Poland over the last year had and incredible swing in the strength of the Polish zloty going from a 1:2 ration per US dollar to even a 1:4 ratio. Over a single year where our economy is the steadiest and well paced in the region. And you know what? it turns out that Goldman Sachs was playing with our currency, betting that it will strengthen and then weaken. So first they buy out our currency in massive quantities and then just as so sell them.

Normally i wouldn't have a problem but these companies are not operating on a small scale but on macro scales. Because of their "games" the export sector is in shambles not to mention that potential investors are afraid to come in saying that Poland is not steady enough, but just how is a country like Poland supposed to fend of a company like Goldman Sachs?

And where the hell did that third paragraph of yours come from? Who said that it's normal? Where? You really went way to far with presumptions on this one my friend. The fact of the matter is that a country by itself does not have the ability to move such large amounts of money without being noticed ( we're talking about 15 b euro here). Goldman Sachs decided to offer their services and the greek gave in to stupidity, that i completely agree on. All i'm saying is look at Goldman Sachs as huge contributor to the current situation.

Could have Greece done something before it got out of control? Sure. Did they expect a crisis to hit them and hit them so hard......hah. They gambled. And they decided to do it at the worst time possible.

I don't know, maybe we're from different planets. Different countries at least lol.

The Swedish economy is actually smaller than Polands. But Goldman Sachs can't do shit to us. And taking a suspicous deal from them to hide the state of your rotten economy would just be something beyond the wildest dreams for any Swedish politician. It just can't happen. And if it did we certainly wouldn't blame any international bankers. It would be the biggest political scandal in Swedish history without any comparison.

I am almost thinking that it's no wonder that our economy is so stable when we have such different mentality compared to people so close as the other side of the Baltic sea.

You actually answered something in that post, your economy is too small to interest GS but the Polish and Greek aren't, with Greece especially since they began the whole thing coming up to the olympics that they were organizing at the time, a lot of money to be made.
And i have thought about the differences between southern europe and the scandinavian countries. I honestly have no idea how the systems that i see in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland(although it theoretically doesn't belong to the group) function as they do without a hitch. I personally would love Poland to be like them but i just don't see it happening with the mentality that permutes here.
And i'm not saying that the bankers are responsible, i'm saying they're co-responsible :P

If i lose access to this profile as well....I'm done with this site.....You've been warned!!.....whoever you are...

Happy Wii60 user. Me and my family are a perfect example of where hardcore meets casual and together mutate into something awesome.

yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:

 

And your whole post is supposed be about what? Because it doesn't make any sense to just say that it's the fault of Greece, you didn't reinvent the wheel claiming this and notice that that i not once claimed that Greece is not at fault, i simply am showing that there's always the other side to the deals and that other side is Goldman sachs which has been playing with currencies in europe like crazy over the past decade.

Poland over the last year had and incredible swing in the strength of the Polish zloty going from a 1:2 ration per US dollar to even a 1:4 ratio. Over a single year where our economy is the steadiest and well paced in the region. And you know what? it turns out that Goldman Sachs was playing with our currency, betting that it will strengthen and then weaken. So first they buy out our currency in massive quantities and then just as so sell them.

Normally i wouldn't have a problem but these companies are not operating on a small scale but on macro scales. Because of their "games" the export sector is in shambles not to mention that potential investors are afraid to come in saying that Poland is not steady enough, but just how is a country like Poland supposed to fend of a company like Goldman Sachs?

And where the hell did that third paragraph of yours come from? Who said that it's normal? Where? You really went way to far with presumptions on this one my friend. The fact of the matter is that a country by itself does not have the ability to move such large amounts of money without being noticed ( we're talking about 15 b euro here). Goldman Sachs decided to offer their services and the greek gave in to stupidity, that i completely agree on. All i'm saying is look at Goldman Sachs as huge contributor to the current situation.

Could have Greece done something before it got out of control? Sure. Did they expect a crisis to hit them and hit them so hard......hah. They gambled. And they decided to do it at the worst time possible.

I don't know, maybe we're from different planets. Different countries at least lol.

The Swedish economy is actually smaller than Polands. But Goldman Sachs can't do shit to us. And taking a suspicous deal from them to hide the state of your rotten economy would just be something beyond the wildest dreams for any Swedish politician. It just can't happen. And if it did we certainly wouldn't blame any international bankers. It would be the biggest political scandal in Swedish history without any comparison.

I am almost thinking that it's no wonder that our economy is so stable when we have such different mentality compared to people so close as the other side of the Baltic sea.

You actually answered something in that post, your economy is too small to interest GS but the Polish and Greek aren't, with Greece especially since they began the whole thing coming up to the olympics that they were organizing at the time, a lot of money to be made.
And i have thought about the differences between southern europe and the scandinavian countries. I honestly have no idea how the systems that i see in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland(although it theoretically doesn't belong to the group) function as they do without a hitch. I personally would love Poland to be like them but i just don't see it happening with the mentality that permutes here.
And i'm not saying that the bankers are responsible, i'm saying they're co-responsible :P

Well yes, there's a lot of baddies out there.



baddies? ho boy oh boy, where's my gun??



If i lose access to this profile as well....I'm done with this site.....You've been warned!!.....whoever you are...

Happy Wii60 user. Me and my family are a perfect example of where hardcore meets casual and together mutate into something awesome.

Around the Network

Just want to point out that some of the Dow melt down was because of a computer glitch. Apparently Proctor and Gamble's share price suddenly got cut in half for no apparent reason and then the market tumbled in typical herd-like / reef fish fashion.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:
yanamaster said:
Slimebeast said:

 

And your whole post is supposed be about what? Because it doesn't make any sense to just say that it's the fault of Greece, you didn't reinvent the wheel claiming this and notice that that i not once claimed that Greece is not at fault, i simply am showing that there's always the other side to the deals and that other side is Goldman sachs which has been playing with currencies in europe like crazy over the past decade.

Poland over the last year had and incredible swing in the strength of the Polish zloty going from a 1:2 ration per US dollar to even a 1:4 ratio. Over a single year where our economy is the steadiest and well paced in the region. And you know what? it turns out that Goldman Sachs was playing with our currency, betting that it will strengthen and then weaken. So first they buy out our currency in massive quantities and then just as so sell them.

Normally i wouldn't have a problem but these companies are not operating on a small scale but on macro scales. Because of their "games" the export sector is in shambles not to mention that potential investors are afraid to come in saying that Poland is not steady enough, but just how is a country like Poland supposed to fend of a company like Goldman Sachs?

And where the hell did that third paragraph of yours come from? Who said that it's normal? Where? You really went way to far with presumptions on this one my friend. The fact of the matter is that a country by itself does not have the ability to move such large amounts of money without being noticed ( we're talking about 15 b euro here). Goldman Sachs decided to offer their services and the greek gave in to stupidity, that i completely agree on. All i'm saying is look at Goldman Sachs as huge contributor to the current situation.

Could have Greece done something before it got out of control? Sure. Did they expect a crisis to hit them and hit them so hard......hah. They gambled. And they decided to do it at the worst time possible.

I don't know, maybe we're from different planets. Different countries at least lol.

The Swedish economy is actually smaller than Polands. But Goldman Sachs can't do shit to us. And taking a suspicous deal from them to hide the state of your rotten economy would just be something beyond the wildest dreams for any Swedish politician. It just can't happen. And if it did we certainly wouldn't blame any international bankers. It would be the biggest political scandal in Swedish history without any comparison.

I am almost thinking that it's no wonder that our economy is so stable when we have such different mentality compared to people so close as the other side of the Baltic sea.

You actually answered something in that post, your economy is too small to interest GS but the Polish and Greek aren't, with Greece especially since they began the whole thing coming up to the olympics that they were organizing at the time, a lot of money to be made.
And i have thought about the differences between southern europe and the scandinavian countries. I honestly have no idea how the systems that i see in Sweden, Norway, Denmark and Finland(although it theoretically doesn't belong to the group) function as they do without a hitch. I personally would love Poland to be like them but i just don't see it happening with the mentality that permutes here.
And i'm not saying that the bankers are responsible, i'm saying they're co-responsible :P

Well yes, there's a lot of baddies out there.

You can't have corruptees without having corruptors. You need to have people willing to be corrupted and people willing to do the corrupting in order to create a situation like Greece. It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation as to whether its the corrupting influence that's the primary cause or the people who are open to being corrupted. But what it boils down to is that the world's political and economic system has corruption inherent in its design, wheether by intent, or simply a design flaw I can't say. But it needs the sort of reform that no current politician or large corporation is willing to consider. Not being a political scientist or economist I can't tell you what the reforms need to be. I just know the system's broke but it ain't being fixed.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Slimebeast said:
Grimes said:
Slimebeast said:
papflesje said:
Slimebeast said:
What's going on?

Short version: Greece is acting up. They have to save a ****load of money because they had been living above their level and now some people are actually burning down the country because they don't want to accept salary cuts to save the finances of the country...

lol

It's not really that funny considering people are dying and lives are being ruined.

It's called black humor, son.

hehe my god whenever I pull that card i get shit for it, but dark humor is bloody hilarious to me.



CURRENTLY PLAYING:  Warframe, Witcher 2

Mummelmann said:

Not much better in Romania, they're cutting salaries by 25% across the board to save costs. Greece is getting a big loan now though, about 18-20 billion euro for now, it'll help a little short term at least but its gonna be decades before its ever returned, if it does at all.
The World Bank is going either have to wipe a huge chunk of debt off of a lot of industrialized countries or come up with a new system to replace the monetary one (which will never happen, the market is tailored to it as we all know).

The crisis is far from over, in fact; timidness in the market, decreased product volume all over the world due to layoff's and cuts and overall laughable interest rates (yes, good for you but the banks that are already hurting in the anus aren't making any money) both commercial and residential will ensure it stays like this for a good while longer. It might even get worse before it gets better.

They're already doing that. If you watched the G8 last year they introduced a global currency which they are working at heavily to replace all national currency's, which is apart of the whole push towards a global governance, which they will say " will save us " from another economic collapse. It's gonna happen in the next decade in my opinion.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

It would be too easy to blame Greece.

Check the total debt of some countries in Europe:

Germany: 1,700 billion EUR

France: 1,489 billion EUR

United Kingdom: 1,027 billion GBP

Spain: 559 billion EUR

Portugal: 125 billion EUR

Austria: 184 billion EUR

Italy: 1,370 billion EUR

Greece: 273 billion EUR

Netherlands: 347 billion EUR

Now some other states:

USA: 12.307 billion USD
Japan: 8.282 billion USD
Australia: 172 billion USD
China: 680 billion USD

 

Do you think every country can pay the debt?



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