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Forums - General - Most Influential Civilization?

 

Most Influential Civilization?

British Empire 24 34.78%
 
Roman Empire (not counting Byzantine) 27 39.13%
 
Spanish Empire 2 2.90%
 
United States of America 6 8.70%
 
Islamic Empires/Dynasties 1 1.45%
 
Other (please post in detail) 9 13.04%
 
Total:69

well that is a really hard question but for now I am going to go with the Greeks so much of modern thought originated with them and their influence made the Romans what they were. I mean just some of the things they brought the world includes, modern map making, Democracy, Cranes, modern mathematics, pi, paved streets (Romans took it further and created roads), more advanced gears, the alarm clock, the dry dock, tumbler lock etc the world just wouldn't be the same without them and the modern world certainly wouldn't be as it is today. But then again just go back to an older civilisation and they influenced the Greeks ect so I guess the first one is the real answer.



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Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?



zarx said:
well that is a really hard question but for now I am going to go with the Greeks so much of modern thought originated with them and their influence made the Romans what they were. I mean just some of the things they brought the world includes, modern map making, Democracy, Cranes, modern mathematics, pi, paved streets (Romans took it further and created roads), more advanced gears, the alarm clock, the dry dock, tumbler lock etc the world just wouldn't be the same without them and the modern world certainly wouldn't be as it is today. But then again just go back to an older civilisation and they influenced the Greeks ect so I guess the first one is the real answer.

Meh, let's just accept that the Greeks thought up all these stuff. Who actually executed and built upon those ideas though? Who conquered the Mediteranian? Who conquered the Celts? Who brought those things to them? Who do people look for inspiration the most? The Greeks? Or the stories of Hannibal and Africanus, of Sulla and Marius, of Caesar and Pompey, of Brutus and Cassius, of Octavian and Antony?

Take the Japanese. They constantly borrow parts of cultures from the East, and then later from the West. But do they simply copy them? No. They adopt them, adapt them, and make what was foreign, Japanese. In the same way, the Romans took the classical art of the Greeks, sometimes going all the way out with them under Augustus, sometimes combining them with the verism of the Etruscans, and eventually settling with the cubism of Constantine and Diocletian. But, all of these, we consider to be ROMAN, not Greek.

The US is a Republic. Latin is used by the Catholic Church. The Renaissance, Mussolini, etc, were all inspired by Roma, her beauty, and her power.



Kasz216 said:

Well... lets take a look at the list.

 

1) British Empire... too young.

2) Roman Empire... not counting the Byzantines, it doesn't really work.

3) Spanish Empire... again too young, and largely influenced by others.

4) USA... Also, too young... with the one caveat being that the "American" way of life does seem to be permiating across the world in was even the British Empire didn't when they actually OWNED most of the world.   Not yet... If the USA stays on top for a while more though... all culture may be a hybrid of US culture.

5)  Islamic Empires/Dynasties... Maybe... they did di a lot, but a lot of it didn't end up working well... a lot of stuff having to be rediscovered.

Those off the Board.

 

1) China... too inturned on themselves.

2) Greece... Alexander the Great... did do a lot.  Still... doesn't seem like enough.  They influenced the Romans... but the romans did all the real legwork.

3) Mongol Empire.  The largest land empire in the world... and debatibly the biggest in the world. 

4) Akkadians, Precursors to Bablyon and pretty much the Islamic Empire.

5) Persian Empire... Huge Empire.  Powerful... etc.

 

 

I'm going Mongols.  Why?

1) Yuan Dynasty.

2) Mughal Empire

3) They caused a crapload of destruction where they came.  This was greatly infuential... in the demography greatly changed... and you could definitly say your country wasn't the same if the Mongolians came in.

4) The Mongols lead to the rise of Moscow, and effected why Russian history ended up.

5) Greatly expanded europes knowledge of the world, which lead to colonilization and trips like Columbus.

 

What? The langauge of English permeated across the world from India to North America to Australia because they were colonies of the British at one time or another. Also, the British empire has had a MASSIVE political, linguistic (mentioned) and cultural legacy. I mean, the english langauge is the language of the world, english law is the basis for many different countries judicial systems and dont even ge tme started on the cultural aspect- Football, cricket, tennis, golf, literature,architecture, education have all been higely influenced by this empire. And also you know, the industrial revolution, and the basis of many scientific principles today was started in Britain, and spread across the world via our trade!



Kasz216 said:

Well... lets take a look at the list.

 

1) British Empire... too young.

2) Roman Empire... not counting the Byzantines, it doesn't really work.

3) Spanish Empire... again too young, and largely influenced by others.

4) USA... Also, too young... with the one caveat being that the "American" way of life does seem to be permiating across the world in was even the British Empire didn't when they actually OWNED most of the world.   Not yet... If the USA stays on top for a while more though... all culture may be a hybrid of US culture.

5)  Islamic Empires/Dynasties... Maybe... they did di a lot, but a lot of it didn't end up working well... a lot of stuff having to be rediscovered.

Those off the Board.

 

1) China... too inturned on themselves.

2) Greece... Alexander the Great... did do a lot.  Still... doesn't seem like enough.  They influenced the Romans... but the romans did all the real legwork.

3) Mongol Empire.  The largest land empire in the world... and debatibly the biggest in the world. 

4) Akkadians, Precursors to Bablyon and pretty much the Islamic Empire.

5) Persian Empire... Huge Empire.  Powerful... etc.

 

 

I'm going Mongols.  Why?

1) Yuan Dynasty.

2) Mughal Empire

3) They caused a crapload of destruction where they came.  This was greatly infuential... in the demography greatly changed... and you could definitly say your country wasn't the same if the Mongolians came in.

4) The Mongols lead to the rise of Moscow, and effected why Russian history ended up.

5) Greatly expanded europes knowledge of the world, which lead to colonilization and trips like Columbus.

 

Don't forget that they loved to "spread their seed" as it were. A very large percentage of the world's population can trace there ancestry back to the Mongol hoard.



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Well since the OP didn't clarify, I'll go with the civilization that influenced ME the most, and that would be USA. I live here so it influences me every day, whether I'm aware of it or not.

Worldwide its currently either the US or China.

Historically, probably the British Empire. Since both the US and India were once provinces, and that's a huge chunk of power that grew out of that empire.



Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?

No I really do not agree.

People in the West have been indoctrinated with these modern myths, that the Crusaders were the bad guys and the moslems were the good guys.

You said: "the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant)." So it was the Wests fault? It simply is wrong. Where do you got such an idea?

The Crusades missions were defensive missions first and foremost. With the usual mix of assholes, power-hungryness, personal gain etc of course there also was aggression, corruption and failure in the end result.

The muslim tolerance towards Jews in historical times is over-exaggerated and is surrounded by myths. (Look up Myth of the Golden Age for example, speaking of Spain).

It's the same with this famous love for science. Yes, the Arab world was more civilized and pro-science at one point, but saying that "they were the ones that preserved and would eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans" is ridiculous.



Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?

No I really do not agree.

People in the West have been indoctrinated with these modern myths, that the Crusaders were the bad guys and the moslems were the good guys.

You said: "the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant)." So it was the Wests fault? It simply is wrong. Where do you got such an idea?

The Crusades missions were defensive missions first and foremost. With the usual mix of assholes, power-hungryness, personal gain etc of course there also was aggression, corruption and failure in the end result.

The muslim tolerance towards Jews in historical times is over-exaggerated and is surrounded by myths. (Look up Myth of the Golden Age for example, speaking of Spain).

It's the same with this famous love for science. Yes, the Arab world was more civilized and pro-science at one point, but saying that "they were the ones that preserved and would eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans" is ridiculous.

So it's no coincidence that Europe was exposed to many scientific ideas and cultural trade when the crusaders returned home? Should I listen to you, who claims to be defending the West from myths, or the civil servants hired by the United States of America purporting those myths themselves?



Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?

No I really do not agree.

People in the West have been indoctrinated with these modern myths, that the Crusaders were the bad guys and the moslems were the good guys.

You said: "the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant)." So it was the Wests fault? It simply is wrong. Where do you got such an idea?

The Crusades missions were defensive missions first and foremost. With the usual mix of assholes, power-hungryness, personal gain etc of course there also was aggression, corruption and failure in the end result.

The muslim tolerance towards Jews in historical times is over-exaggerated and is surrounded by myths. (Look up Myth of the Golden Age for example, speaking of Spain).

It's the same with this famous love for science. Yes, the Arab world was more civilized and pro-science at one point, but saying that "they were the ones that preserved and would eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans" is ridiculous.

So it's no coincidence that Europe was exposed to many scientific ideas and cultural trade when the crusaders returned home?

It's no coincidence. Of course there was influence by Arab/muslim culture on Europe. Very significant influence. But I am questioning how much importance u put into it. U said that "they preserved and passed on the Renaissance".



Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
Slimebeast said:
Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?

No I really do not agree.

People in the West have been indoctrinated with these modern myths, that the Crusaders were the bad guys and the moslems were the good guys.

You said: "the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant)." So it was the Wests fault? It simply is wrong. Where do you got such an idea?

The Crusades missions were defensive missions first and foremost. With the usual mix of assholes, power-hungryness, personal gain etc of course there also was aggression, corruption and failure in the end result.

The muslim tolerance towards Jews in historical times is over-exaggerated and is surrounded by myths. (Look up Myth of the Golden Age for example, speaking of Spain).

It's the same with this famous love for science. Yes, the Arab world was more civilized and pro-science at one point, but saying that "they were the ones that preserved and would eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans" is ridiculous.

So it's no coincidence that Europe was exposed to many scientific ideas and cultural trade when the crusaders returned home?

It's no coincidence. Of course there was influence by Arab/muslim culture on Europe. Very significant influence. But I am questioning how much importance u put into it. U said that "they preserved and passed on the Renaissance".

Well, as long as we're at least on the page that the Muslims have at least contributed to one of the biggest revival of liberal arts and science in Europe, then there's nothing much more to argue about.