Most Influential Civilization?

[Akvod]

Slimebeast said:

Akvod said:

Slimebeast said:

Akvod said:
I'm surprised that no one voted Islamic =/ Remember guys, they were the ones that preserved and will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans. At one point, the Europeans were the religious extremists, and the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant).

But the muslims attacked Europe way before Europeans attacked them in the Holy Land.

Btw, what do you mean by "will eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans"?

I think it was obvious that I made a typo (would instead of will), since the Rennaisance already happened O.o

And I was equating Catholic Europe with Europe, not counting the Byzantines. And the Almohads, although you can consider that Islamic trangression with the Spanish conquest, they were their own seperate country, plus the crusades weren't directed at them so (plus they were a lot more tolerant to the Jews than the Spanish)...

Basically, can we really say that the English or French were fighting defensivly, and were adressing grievances all the way out into Jerusalem and Egypt, especially after Constantinople was sacked by the crusaders themselves?

Can we also agree that the Muslims were a lot more tolerant than the Western world, with its inquisitions and censorship of science, and that there was a time when science and rationalism flourished in the east (Algebra, medicine, etc)?

No I really do not agree.

People in the West have been indoctrinated with these modern myths, that the Crusaders were the bad guys and the moslems were the good guys.

You said: "the Islamic people the tolerant and liberal civilization (until the constant attacks on them made them more conservative and militant)." So it was the Wests fault? It simply is wrong. Where do you got such an idea?

The Crusades missions were defensive missions first and foremost. With the usual mix of assholes, power-hungryness, personal gain etc of course there also was aggression, corruption and failure in the end result.

The muslim tolerance towards Jews in historical times is over-exaggerated and is surrounded by myths. (Look up Myth of the Golden Age for example, speaking of Spain).

It's the same with this famous love for science. Yes, the Arab world was more civilized and pro-science at one point, but saying that "they were the ones that preserved and would eventually pass on the Renaissance to the Europeans" is ridiculous.

So it's no coincidence that Europe was exposed to many scientific ideas and cultural trade when the crusaders returned home? Should I listen to you, who claims to be defending the West from myths, or the civil servants hired by the United States of America purporting those myths themselves?