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Forums - Microsoft - DF: Alan Wake: the sub-HD debate

Recon1O1 on 20 April 2010

Hope EB give me my $10 back Thanks to all the PS3 fans for helping me avoid that potential disaster.

I am in love with Selnor's sig. Is that so wrong?



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disolitude on 20 April 2010

This is the best marketting strategy I've ever seen. Every nerd on the net is talking about it and Alan Wake is being discussed left right and center.



fighter on 20 April 2010

Welcome to Alan Wake HD, the sub-debate



We're 3/4 through this gen and some people are still stuck on the initial HD marketing claims. With graphic trolls every thread is another amnesia.



Rainbird on 20 April 2010
selnor said:
Rainbird said:
selnor said:

Maybe because Alan Wake is the only Console game ever to have 4XMSAA it's confusing people with uber smooth edges. LOL.

Sarcasm? O_o

Of course. However it is the only game to have Full screen 4xMSAA On any console.

Some games have had 4xMLAA or QSAA I beleive. But both these mthods blur textures and are made specifically for less stress on a system. Use them on Crysis you'll see what I mean.

Even then I have know idea if those games using 4xMLAA are actually Full Screen Anti aliasing. FSAA. I also believe Alan Wake is the first FSAA game on consoles as well.

Oh thank god xD

But how is it the only game with fullscreen 4xMSAA? To my knowledge, both Siren: Blood Curse and Fight Night Round 4 (360) run with that setup.

And how does MLAA blur textures? The best example of that implemented in a console game is God of War 3, and the only noticable blur is the motionblur.



selnor on 20 April 2010
Rainbird said:
selnor said:
Rainbird said:
selnor said:

Maybe because Alan Wake is the only Console game ever to have 4XMSAA it's confusing people with uber smooth edges. LOL.

Sarcasm? O_o

Of course. However it is the only game to have Full screen 4xMSAA On any console.

Some games have had 4xMLAA or QSAA I beleive. But both these mthods blur textures and are made specifically for less stress on a system. Use them on Crysis you'll see what I mean.

Even then I have know idea if those games using 4xMLAA are actually Full Screen Anti aliasing. FSAA. I also believe Alan Wake is the first FSAA game on consoles as well.

Oh thank god xD

But how is it the only game with fullscreen 4xMSAA? To my knowledge, both Siren: Blood Curse and Fight Night Round 4 (360) run with that setup.

And how does MLAA blur textures? The best example of that implemented in a console game is God of War 3, and the only noticable blur is the motionblur.

MLAA works by blending the colours either side of an edge to make the edge lines appear non jagged. It's this blending of the colours that can cause textures either side to blurr. Because the AA is adding in blocks of colour, which dont have any textures on them. If for example it was possible to see the same game with MSAA ( Like Crysis ) you can see a noteable difference. But it doesnt matter to much with a res of 720p. 1080p would be alot more noticeable.

 

EDIT: I believe FNR4 and Siren were not FS 4xMSAA. For example it was only characters in FNR4. Whereas the rest of the image wasn't. Like Gears 2: It has only got 2xMSAA on effects and transparencies. The rest has no AA at all.



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selnor on 20 April 2010
Recon1O1 said:
Hope EB give me my $10 back Thanks to all the PS3 fans for helping me avoid that potential disaster.

I am in love with Selnor's sig. Is that so wrong?

I'm glad you love it. I think it looks cool. ;)



Snuttis on 20 April 2010

Selnor, are you sure that mlaa works that way?
Even the guys at http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55634&page=16 have trouble figuring out how it works.

 

"I don't fully get what the tech does, though. It probably involves serious edge detection, also taking the Z-buffer into account; but after that, it's certainly not just a simple blur operation. More like a full reconstruction / re-drawing of the poly edges using an AA-ed line drawing algorithm and sampling the color from the original image?"


The technique was extremely expensive before getting it optimized enough for the spu:s, which can be read here http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/more-on-god-of-war-iii-antialiasing/



selnor on 20 April 2010
Snuttis said:

Selnor, are you sure that mlaa works that way?
Even the guys at http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=55634&page=16 have trouble figuring out how it works.

 

"I don't fully get what the tech does, though. It probably involves serious edge detection, also taking the Z-buffer into account; but after that, it's certainly not just a simple blur operation. More like a full reconstruction / re-drawing of the poly edges using an AA-ed line drawing algorithm and sampling the color from the original image?"


The technique was extremely expensive before getting it optimized enough for the spu:s, which can be read here http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/more-on-god-of-war-iii-antialiasing/
Yeah I'm sure. MLAA works by blending colours. Not blurring them. Blending them causes some colours and textures to run. As shown in the indepth look at MLAA I post the link for. Long read, but MLAA is explained exactly. Also providing crude game images for easy analogy. It's clear it has a blurring effect on some textures.

http://visual-computing.intel-research.net/publications/mlaa.pdf



daveJ on 20 April 2010
selnor said:
 


Of course. However it is the only game to have Full screen 4xMSAA On any console.

EPIC fail, here are just some resolutions from Beyond3D

 

PS3

Heavenly Sword = 1280x720 (4xAA)

NHL '09 = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Warhawk = 1280x720 (4xAA)

 

XBox360

Afro Samurai = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Darkness, The = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Fight Night Round 4 = 1280x720 (4xAA)

 

The worse thing is first remedy were saying the game is 720p and now admit it is running sub 720p. They would of saved themselves all this bother if they admitted it straight away, then again all I suppose publicity is good publicity

 



All bow to me the VGChartz current reigning 3DS prediction champion 

 Bet with tbone51: Pokeon X & pokemon Y will not sell more than 8 million in 2013

 jarrod said:The Xbox360 or ps3 will not sell more than 75million units

July 2009 daveJ said: True the wii has a large lead now but by 2017 the most likely result will be 1. ps3 2. xbox360 3. wii <-- wii's successor launched in 2011 effectively killing sales of the wii

 2009 daveJ said: The wii will not break the 50% marketshare barrier it will go below the 40% marketshare barrier though in the future. VGChartz members: Impossible, youre an idiot that knows nothing about sales

selnor on 20 April 2010
daveJ said:
selnor said:
 


Of course. However it is the only game to have Full screen 4xMSAA On any console.

EPIC fail, here are just some resolutions from Beyond3D

 

PS3

Heavenly Sword = 1280x720 (4xAA)

NHL '09 = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Warhawk = 1280x720 (4xAA)

 

XBox360

Afro Samurai = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Darkness, The = 1280x720 (4xAA)

Fight Night Round 4 = 1280x720 (4xAA)

 

The worse thing is first remedy were saying the game is 720p and now admit it is running sub 720p. They would of saved themselves all this bother if they admitted it straight away, then again all I suppose publicity is good publicity

 

If you read the rest of the thread, you wouldn't have posted this. I'll repeat. No console game is doing FS 4xMSAA.