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Forums - Gaming - Why does game storytelling have such low standards? [MGS4, HL2, etc.]

d21lewis on 18 April 2010

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theman88 on 18 April 2010

Honestly you all have way way too long of answers and post to this article. Plus i dont know about the rest of you but i thought that MGS4 had a great story that was complimented with the PSN add on. You are all crazy, if you thought that it sucked



The Ghost of RubangB on 18 April 2010
thelifatree said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
I was just going to defend Half-Life 2 and say it's amazing not for the story, but for the storytelling. Then I read makingmusic's post that quoted that Sean Riley character's response to the OP. Beat me to it. Great post too!

And while I haven't played Ico yet, I've played Out of This World several times, and that's Ico's biggest inspiration. I can't gush about Out of This World enough. It inspired games like Ico that allegedly "got it right" and games like Metal Gear Solid that are convoluted cutscene fests. It inspired everything. It has almost no story, but the way it's told.... damn, that's the stuff.


And no no no, games don't need stories. Movies and books and songs don't even need stories. Does anybody care about the story of "Thriller?" No. But they love how the story is told through horror cliches, funky basslines, zombie dance moves, and Vincent Price. Any of those on their own is just "pretty cool," but the way they're mixed into a story is "totally awesome." Citizen Kane isn't considered by so many to be the greatest film of all time due to the story. It's considered the best for its storytelling, starting with the ending, then the news report, and mostly for the contradicting flashbacks with different points of view. Same goes for games.

I find cutscenes good because it's a change of pace.

I also found shadow of colosus amazing

I don't thinks storytelling, stories should be in one set format beceause like movies there are many ways to tell agood story. And people like stories in different ways

Many people enjoy the metal gear cutscene fests... they're very much like anime at some points. So to say there shouldn't be videogames like that, is like saying that videogames should be catered to you only. And besides MGS4, the pacing in MGS 1 especially was excellent and taught.

There is no perfect way to tell a story. IMO It's just the creator needs to apply the storytelling techniques that best fit the thing he is trying to create.

 

would you want Solid Snake not to have any of his witty banter? Via Codec and things. I think most MGS fans want that. The pacing and quality of storytelling (4 was the only one I had a problem with) needs to be improved

Hey I never said that the MGS4 style of "movie games "should be stopped.  The game sold very well, so there's a market for it.  I want to expand gaming into all genres and styles, including the ones I don't like.  My problem is with the crazy people out there that think Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid are the greatest games ever made due to their stories, and then they think Tetris or Mario aren't really games because they don't have stories.  They're the ones attacking the most successful games ever made due to their crazy ideas about storytelling.

I still love Night Trap, and that's about as "movie game" as you can get.



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Squilliam on 18 April 2010
thelifatree said:

Entertaining depends on preference

Blade Runner. Some people find it boring as a wall. Some people like to pick apart things in piece things together same thing with anime.

 

I think restricting, Games in any way of storytelling is bad. What fits the atmosphere of the game. Would A cutscene work better, would QTE, would it be better after some tricky puzzles, to sit back and watch a movie being played between gameplay.

Basically you get a Movie-Videogame Hybrid then which exists.

If the purpose of a videogame is to entertain plotwise. Then Final Fantasy X with its bad dialogue and all, beats out 95% of movies for me. Because of the world, the illusion of attachment everything. So maybe it won't do the same for you, but it does for me. And many other people


Taste doesn't matter so long as some people find it enjoyable and they partake of the entertainment. Some of the biggest works have the characteristic of being enjoyable by almost anybody.

Its obtuse in studying video game stories to restrict the idea of story telling to words spoken or written, and the overall plot for video games. The story of any video game with a story is not a one page summary of what happened like that Avatar picture which was posted earlier.

In a visual sense many great video games tell their story through the environment. Its up to the player to pay attention and interpret what they see. The story in a video game isn't limited to what is told or what happens and a game doesn't need QTE or even cutscenes to tell a great story.



Tease.

thelifatree on 18 April 2010
Squilliam said:
thelifatree said:

Entertaining depends on preference

Blade Runner. Some people find it boring as a wall. Some people like to pick apart things in piece things together same thing with anime.

 

I think restricting, Games in any way of storytelling is bad. What fits the atmosphere of the game. Would A cutscene work better, would QTE, would it be better after some tricky puzzles, to sit back and watch a movie being played between gameplay.

Basically you get a Movie-Videogame Hybrid then which exists.

If the purpose of a videogame is to entertain plotwise. Then Final Fantasy X with its bad dialogue and all, beats out 95% of movies for me. Because of the world, the illusion of attachment everything. So maybe it won't do the same for you, but it does for me. And many other people


Taste doesn't matter so long as some people find it enjoyable and they partake of the entertainment. Some of the biggest works have the characteristic of being enjoyable by almost anybody.

Its obtuse in studying video game stories to restrict the idea of story telling to words spoken or written, and the overall plot for video games. The story of any video game with a story is not a one page summary of what happened like that Avatar picture which was posted earlier.

In a visual sense many great video games tell their story through the environment. Its up to the player to pay attention and interpret what they see. The story in a video game isn't limited to what is told or what happens and a game doesn't need QTE or even cutscenes to tell a great story.

That's what I said. Shadow of a Collosus is an example of a story beting told that way. I'm Also Saying that a games can use cutscenes to tell story's both ways, work it depends on the atmosphere and the type of the game.

Examples of Storytelling. Drakes Uncharted, FF and MGS Cutscenes...  work well when executed correcly
Non Cutscene: Ico, Shadow of Collosus Works well
Interactive Cutscene: Deus Ex, Mass Effect       works well, the problem with this story telling is it ends up being like Uncharted and FF because a lot of the time no matter what you say they same things happen, But choosing what you say is gameplay--- hence its like choose your own ending books it just hasn't worked out that well yet.

Mario especially, and Zelda do not have great stories, but they're extremley enjoyable. That means they're enjoyable videogame with bad stories.

is do put restrictions on how a game has to play, or how a game has to be told is taste. Some people like the storytelling of Shadows, Ico, some prefer Final Fantasy, and Metal Gear, uncharted. The industry neesd both

Would Conkers Bad Fur Day, have been near as good without the story told through cutscenes no?



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Wagram on 18 April 2010

I thought MGS4 had a great story.

and yeah HL 2s story was pretty horrid.



thelifatree on 18 April 2010
The Ghost of RubangB said:
thelifatree said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
I was just going to defend Half-Life 2 and say it's amazing not for the story, but for the storytelling. Then I read makingmusic's post that quoted that Sean Riley character's response to the OP. Beat me to it. Great post too!

And while I haven't played Ico yet, I've played Out of This World several times, and that's Ico's biggest inspiration. I can't gush about Out of This World enough. It inspired games like Ico that allegedly "got it right" and games like Metal Gear Solid that are convoluted cutscene fests. It inspired everything. It has almost no story, but the way it's told.... damn, that's the stuff.


And no no no, games don't need stories. Movies and books and songs don't even need stories. Does anybody care about the story of "Thriller?" No. But they love how the story is told through horror cliches, funky basslines, zombie dance moves, and Vincent Price. Any of those on their own is just "pretty cool," but the way they're mixed into a story is "totally awesome." Citizen Kane isn't considered by so many to be the greatest film of all time due to the story. It's considered the best for its storytelling, starting with the ending, then the news report, and mostly for the contradicting flashbacks with different points of view. Same goes for games.

I find cutscenes good because it's a change of pace.

I also found shadow of colosus amazing

I don't thinks storytelling, stories should be in one set format beceause like movies there are many ways to tell agood story. And people like stories in different ways

Many people enjoy the metal gear cutscene fests... they're very much like anime at some points. So to say there shouldn't be videogames like that, is like saying that videogames should be catered to you only. And besides MGS4, the pacing in MGS 1 especially was excellent and taught.

There is no perfect way to tell a story. IMO It's just the creator needs to apply the storytelling techniques that best fit the thing he is trying to create.

 

would you want Solid Snake not to have any of his witty banter? Via Codec and things. I think most MGS fans want that. The pacing and quality of storytelling (4 was the only one I had a problem with) needs to be improved

Hey I never said that the MGS4 style of "movie games "should be stopped.  The game sold very well, so there's a market for it.  I want to expand gaming into all genres and styles, including the ones I don't like.  My problem is with the crazy people out there that think Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid are the greatest games ever made due to their stories, and then they think Tetris or Mario aren't really games because they don't have stories.  They're the ones attacking the most successful games ever made due to their crazy ideas about storytelling.

I still love Night Trap, and that's about as "movie game" as you can get.

Umm, I agree with you Mario Games are Necessary, Games don't neeed stories. As Mario 64 and OoT are 2 of my favorite games.

It's just it's those peoples opinion who think FF is better because of the story, because the games like FF and MGS, with the story are much different than other games such as mario or OoT it's their taste in videogames
Thus favorite always = the best

it's kind of like I think GTAIV is crap because it think its unfocused and the gameplay mechanics are bad but that just has to do with my taste... But people love it cause you can run and round and screw around that's fine that's their taste

Some People find final fantasy to fit their taste the best which is why it = the best game for some people
Some People find Killzone 2 to be the best game in the world = best game for those people

 



perpride on 18 April 2010

I don't even know where to start with this bogus article, but the title itself is enough to make one turn away in disgust.

Low standards?

MGS4, and the MGS series in general, has some of the best storytelling I have ever seen in my entire life. The guy doesn't even say a single thing that's actually bad with the story, he just says I could write a 10 page essay, so I'll stop....before he even starts.

Almost every game in the Final Fantasy series has an amazing story and amazing presentation for it too.

Anyway my $0.02? This guy wouldn't know good storytelling if it punched him in the face.



Pipedream24 on 18 April 2010

Video game stories are on the most part cliched and predictable, but that doesn't mean they have to be ridiculous. I agree, MGS4 is absolutely a mess. I can't believe so many people hearld it as one of the greatest stories of all time. The story is incoherent at best and borders on absurd at points (Seriously, Raiden going into battle with no arms and his sword in his teeth). Kojima is better than that. MGS, Snatcher, and ZoE were at least enjoyable stories.

Modern Warfare 2 is another game with horrific storytelling. I know it's a FPS, but there is no continuity to the story what so ever. It jumps all over the place and leaves you wondering "What the hell did I just do".

I also agree with Bioshock being the pinnacle in video game stories so far (Heavy Rain was pretty damn good as well). I don't expect Hollywood scripts for games. Development cost are already high enough. But at least keep things in the realm of plausibilty and have the plot make sense.





perpride on 18 April 2010
Pipedream24 said:

Video game stories are on the most part cliched and predictable, but that doesn't mean they have to be ridiculous. I agree, MGS4 is absolutely a mess. I can't believe so many people hearld it as one of the greatest stories of all time. The story is incoherent at best and borders on absurd at points (Seriously, Raiden going into battle with no arms and his sword in his teeth). Kojima is better than that. MGS, Snatcher, and ZoE were at least enjoyable stories.

Modern Warfare 2 is another game with horrific storytelling. I know it's a FPS, but there is no continuity to the story what so ever. It jumps all over the place and leaves you wondering "What the hell did I just do".

I also agree with Bioshock being the pinnacle in video game stories so far (Heavy Rain was pretty damn good as well). I don't expect Hollywood scripts for games. Development cost are already high enough. But at least keep things in the realm of plausibilty and have the plot make sense.

You call MGS4 story redicolous and a mess, yet hail Heavy Rain (or as I like to call it, swiss cheese) as one of the greatest stories of all time?


I understand MGS4 was complicated, but it was an amazing storyline and wrapped the series up perfectly imo.