By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Live UK political debates

This is my response to the debate that I stuck on my website if anyone can be bothered to read it:

DEBATE WAS ROLE PLAY RATHER THAN GAME CHANGER


Nothing new was learned about the political situation, no-one made up any ground that was unexpected, no-one made any unpredictable plays; it was almost script like in its inevitability; and what is more, no one could make up any ground that was not predictable, no-one could make any unpredictable plays. What became evident within the first five minutes of the sham of a debate was that the system was dictating the patterns of behaviour of all three leaders, rather than true passionate beliefs.

Now, I'm not saying that they didn't believe in some of the things they were talking about; I'm sure they did. What I am saying is that the whole thing was an illusion of debate, a simulation of democracy. Once we had realised that all three leaders were going to do a professional job, it was clear that the debate would end in a victory of sorts for Nick Clegg. The Liberals were in the position of being able to sidestep the same old ding dong between the two 'great' powers of Labour and Conservative. Brown was always in the most difficult position as a long-term incumbent whose government has been linked to various failures. His position that defended his record and explained they had to do more was as predictable as the Conservative and Liberal lines about them having had 13 years already.

If Brown, Clegg and Cameron had switched places; if Brown was the leader of the third largest party, Cameron, the defending Prime Minister and Clegg the leader of the opposition then we would have had similar lines of reasoning. Basically they are interchangeable pieces within a system that constrains the limits of what is said.

Looking at the media views of the discussion you would believe that there were huge gulfs in outlook between the parties. The media is so excited by the story of a debate that they fail to see the constrained nature of the whole farce, the predictability. Sure, it is exciting to watch them in action, but the entertainment and chatter it created is a distraction from the fact that we live in a fairly stable, predictable system. Focusing on tiny things such as their ties, their suits, their body and facial language, the emotional reactions of viewers, takes us away from the fact that no-one is coming up with any radical ways forward.

The debate is simply an alibi, a justification of a democracy that doesn't exist in the way it could. The examination of minute details of difference between parties makes us forget that much of our reaction to political commentary is based on ignorance. Even MPs admit that they cannot understand all the legislation that is being passed, nor can they be expected to. When the so-called experts are not clear on things, how are we, the public, that have other things to be getting on with, supposed to know what is really going on? This ignorance is at the heart of the predictability of what is said because if someone moved away from what is supposedly known they would be taken for a madman.

This is our dilemma

taken from www.spacemag.org



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Around the Network
mrstickball said:
Actually, the UK nuclear stockpile isn't enough of a deterrent to prevent wars.

If you haven't read the news lately, North Korea attacked a South Korean warship and sunk it. They are trying to start a war, despite the allies (everyone but NK in this case) having plenty of deterrent. When you have nothing left to lose, you will do anything to go out with a bang, it seems.

Come on. Even South Korea isn't blaming North Korea for that, just the media.

I very much doubt that Kim Jong Il would be stupid enough to do that.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

bazmeistergen said:
CrazyHorse said:

The money will be spent on either replacing or prolonging the Vangaurd Class submarines which are the delivery system for the missiles not on the actual weapons themselves (the total number we have will likely be cut). Where is this £100Bn figure from? The replacemnt of the subs is projected to cost up to £20Bn at most afaik (less if only 3 new subs are built instead of 4).

The question for me on this issue is whether there is another method of delivery that could be use that can reduce these costs. I guess the issue with land based launchers is that they are susceptible to attack.

 

@FootballFan

It's a bit of a leap to suggest that just because some people believe in nuclear disarmament that they are some kind of tree-hugging pacifists.

the 97 billion figure comes directly from the debate... no-one disputed it that I can recall... do we not have ICBMs in this country anymore?

Yep just checked it, Clegg said £100Bn over 25 years. Although I don't think that's completely accurate. The figure Clegg was using was taken from Greenpeace figures I think and is taking into account money which will have to be spent regardless of whether Trident is renewed or not.

I'm fairly sure Trident is our only launch mechanism now, no ICBMs.



Kantor said:
mrstickball said:
Actually, the UK nuclear stockpile isn't enough of a deterrent to prevent wars.

If you haven't read the news lately, North Korea attacked a South Korean warship and sunk it. They are trying to start a war, despite the allies (everyone but NK in this case) having plenty of deterrent. When you have nothing left to lose, you will do anything to go out with a bang, it seems.

Come on. Even South Korea isn't blaming North Korea for that, just the media.

I very much doubt that Kim Jong Il would be stupid enough to do that.

Umm, have you read the report? The investigation is over. It was hit with a torpedo. They have the make and model of the torpedo already figured out as a Chinese made Yu-2 model. The question now is if China actually had the gall to hit the Cheonan or NK did (which is 99% likelihood that NK did it).

Now, if you want to put forth another scenario, I'd love to hear it, because I've kept up with the sinking of the Cheonan on a daily basis.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Holy shit, the Lib Dems just skyrocketed.

http://www.today.yougov.co.uk/politics/latest-voting-intention-16-april

Above Labour, 3% below Tory.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Around the Network

Dear God.....Clegg is rising in popularity!

This is not a good sign for the people of Britain, we DONT want a criminal in charge of our proud nation. He talks about Role Models and yet he is no better.

As a 16-year-old exchange student in Munich, Germany, he performed community service for a minor case of arson he and a friend burned Germany's leading collection of cacti belonging to a professor.

I thought people who commit arson weren't allowed to be politicians? Maybe I'm wrong



FootballFan said:
Dear God.....Clegg is rising in popularity!

This is not a good sign for the people of Britain, we DONT want a criminal in charge of our proud nation. He talks about Role Models and yet he is no better.

As a 16-year-old exchange student in Munich, Germany, he performed community service for a minor case of arson he and a friend burned Germany's leading collection of cacti belonging to a professor.

I thought people who commit arson weren't allowed to be politicians? Maybe I'm wrong

who cares... he was 16... Cameron admitted smoking weed at school... nobody gave a fuck...



tombi123 said:
FootballFan said:
Dear God.....Clegg is rising in popularity!

This is not a good sign for the people of Britain, we DONT want a criminal in charge of our proud nation. He talks about Role Models and yet he is no better.

As a 16-year-old exchange student in Munich, Germany, he performed community service for a minor case of arson he and a friend burned Germany's leading collection of cacti belonging to a professor.

I thought people who commit arson weren't allowed to be politicians? Maybe I'm wrong

who cares... he was 16... Cameron admitted smoking weed at school... nobody gave a fuck...

Please don't compare smoking weed and arson.

I think a lot of people would care.....if they knew. Who knows, maybe something will get mentioned at the next debate.



FootballFan said:
Dear God.....Clegg is rising in popularity!

This is not a good sign for the people of Britain, we DONT want a criminal in charge of our proud nation. He talks about Role Models and yet he is no better.

As a 16-year-old exchange student in Munich, Germany, he performed community service for a minor case of arson he and a friend burned Germany's leading collection of cacti belonging to a professor.

I thought people who commit arson weren't allowed to be politicians? Maybe I'm wrong

lminor case sugesting it's something you souldn't remember 30 years later, What people do as 16 year olds doesn't neceserily reflect on what they do as adults.



rastari said:
FootballFan said:
Dear God.....Clegg is rising in popularity!

This is not a good sign for the people of Britain, we DONT want a criminal in charge of our proud nation. He talks about Role Models and yet he is no better.

As a 16-year-old exchange student in Munich, Germany, he performed community service for a minor case of arson he and a friend burned Germany's leading collection of cacti belonging to a professor.

I thought people who commit arson weren't allowed to be politicians? Maybe I'm wrong

lminor case sugesting it's something you souldn't remember 30 years later, What people do as 16 year olds doesn't neceserily reflect on what they do as adults.


I was just highlighting the issue because I have a feeling that it will get mentioned at some stage during the debates. In addition, arson is a serious crime and something that Clegg has pinned down as being something he would target "hard hitting" sentences on.

If someone of his policies was in charge, he would have got a jail sentence!