By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Live UK political debates

highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
The Guardian has ditched Labour and is supporting the LIb Dems.... wow.

This all feels fairly significant.  What with the UK usually described as a 2.5 party system.  Have the Liberal democrats ever actually overtaken one of the big 2 or even been close?

They have frequently been close, but this time round they are actually getting results. Right now they are above Labour in most opinion polls and they have come fairly close to the Conservatives in a few others. This is certainly the strongest they've been.

But on the other hand, I know a couple people who were going to vote Labour strategically just to keep the Conservatives out. When the Liberal Democrats came into the spotlight the same people switched from Labour to Lib Dems as they felt that there was more of a chance by backing them.

So their popularity may just be a temporary snowball effect for this election only... In fact, I shouldn't say "may", it will.

Isn't that how all politcal parties work though? 



Around the Network
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
The Guardian has ditched Labour and is supporting the LIb Dems.... wow.

This all feels fairly significant.  What with the UK usually described as a 2.5 party system.  Have the Liberal democrats ever actually overtaken one of the big 2 or even been close?

They have frequently been close, but this time round they are actually getting results. Right now they are above Labour in most opinion polls and they have come fairly close to the Conservatives in a few others. This is certainly the strongest they've been.

But on the other hand, I know a couple people who were going to vote Labour strategically just to keep the Conservatives out. When the Liberal Democrats came into the spotlight the same people switched from Labour to Lib Dems as they felt that there was more of a chance by backing them.

So their popularity may just be a temporary snowball effect for this election only... In fact, I shouldn't say "may", it will.

Isn't that how all politcal parties work though? 

You mean up and down in popularity? I suppose you're right.



I've just been watching the great Margret Thatcher. There are amazing similarities between what Cameron has been saying to that of the iron lady. In particular, 2.00 onwards. If only Cameron had a more decisive role in the Conservative Party, he would have already won the election. 

  



highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
The Guardian has ditched Labour and is supporting the LIb Dems.... wow.

This all feels fairly significant.  What with the UK usually described as a 2.5 party system.  Have the Liberal democrats ever actually overtaken one of the big 2 or even been close?

They have frequently been close, but this time round they are actually getting results. Right now they are above Labour in most opinion polls and they have come fairly close to the Conservatives in a few others. This is certainly the strongest they've been.

But on the other hand, I know a couple people who were going to vote Labour strategically just to keep the Conservatives out. When the Liberal Democrats came into the spotlight the same people switched from Labour to Lib Dems as they felt that there was more of a chance by backing them.

So their popularity may just be a temporary snowball effect for this election only... In fact, I shouldn't say "may", it will.

Isn't that how all politcal parties work though? 

You mean up and down in popularity? I suppose you're right.

That and the majority of votes a main party gets is largely opposition votes instead of a valdation of a parties stances. 



Kasz216 said:
kowenicki said:
The Guardian has ditched Labour and is supporting the LIb Dems.... wow.

This all feels fairly significant.  What with the UK usually described as a 2.5 party system.  Have the Liberal democrats ever actually overtaken one of the big 2 or even been close?

The BBC just put up election results for the last 65 years.

It's really only in the last decade or two that anybody cared about the Liberal Democrats. Power has always shifted from Labour to Conservative and back, generally with both in the 40s or high 30s (popular vote) at the lowest.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Around the Network
FootballFan said:

I've just been watching the great Margret Thatcher. There are amazing similarities between what Cameron has been saying to that of the iron lady. In particular, 2.00 onwards. If only Cameron had a more decisive role in the Conservative Party, he would have already won the election. 

  

I think he's trying to lose the connection with Margaret Thatcher despite the fact that she's the best and most popular Prime Minister of the last half-decade. Britain today is far too socialist to vote in Thatcher again. But the most irritating thing is the way that, despite the fact that the Conservatives are getting so irritatingly left wing, everybody still says they are a rich person party.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Scoobes said:
bazmeistergen said:
Cameron started well, but was evasive when pressed.

He also claimed to have answered Clegg on the 80% point, but had evaded it.

It is interesting how people basically think the person that 'won' is who they favour in the first place. Of course a few of you on hear think Cameron won, despite the clear weaknesses he had.

Personally, I thought it was pretty poor from Cameron, though he had some strong moments. Clegg, was occasionally by-passed, but had some strong moments (possibly the best speech at the end) and Brown, too, had good moments, but was very negative at the end in terms of the fear message.

They are all hypocrites, however. And that annoys me.

The bolded is very true, and I think these debates have made that abundantly clear. That and the fact that Brown really is an idiot.

Clegg seemed a bit too evasive at times and his debating style has become a bit too well-known now. Even I'm noticing the tactics he's employing and he repeated the same things for each debate; personalising each question given and answering the questioner directly whilst playing the whole "We haven't been in power for years" card a bit too much.

Cameron's improved over the 3 debates but could have and should have answered some of the questions better, especially when both Brown and Clegg put questions to him on the economy and Tory policies.

Brown seemed desperately negative and basically said, "I suck, but these 2 suck more!", and kept asking the same questions... which the other 2 had already answered. Anyone notice the nervous lip quivers in the middle?

And all 3 outright lied about there opponents policies.

Now who do I vote for?

Politicians lying? Surely, you jest!

A politician standing for election has two jobs:

1) Make his party look good

2) Make the other parties look bad.

Being a little dishonest is normal.

Vote for the one whose policies you agree with most. Ignore their speaking style, confidence, quality of dress and honesty about opponent's policies, because at the end of the day, when you vote, you are saying "I want this person to run the country for 4-5 years".



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kantor said:
FootballFan said:

I've just been watching the great Margret Thatcher. There are amazing similarities between what Cameron has been saying to that of the iron lady. In particular, 2.00 onwards. If only Cameron had a more decisive role in the Conservative Party, he would have already won the election.

  

I think he's trying to lose the connection with Margaret Thatcher despite the fact that she's the best and most popular Prime Minister of the last half-decade. Britain today is far too socialist to vote in Thatcher again. But the most irritating thing is the way that, despite the fact that the Conservatives are getting so irritatingly left wing, everybody still says they are a rich person party.

Christ! Left-wing has really lost its true meaning if Labour and the Conservatives are considered to be anything other that right of centre. They are both totally establishment and both totally supportive of free market capitalism with some slight support of regulation, much of it self-regulation.

Some elements of Keynesian economics remain (and that was really just another way to support the monetary system) Both parties still support many of Hayek's liberalisation of the economy views.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Kantor said:
Scoobes said:
bazmeistergen said:
Cameron started well, but was evasive when pressed.

He also claimed to have answered Clegg on the 80% point, but had evaded it.

It is interesting how people basically think the person that 'won' is who they favour in the first place. Of course a few of you on hear think Cameron won, despite the clear weaknesses he had.

Personally, I thought it was pretty poor from Cameron, though he had some strong moments. Clegg, was occasionally by-passed, but had some strong moments (possibly the best speech at the end) and Brown, too, had good moments, but was very negative at the end in terms of the fear message.

They are all hypocrites, however. And that annoys me.

The bolded is very true, and I think these debates have made that abundantly clear. That and the fact that Brown really is an idiot.

Clegg seemed a bit too evasive at times and his debating style has become a bit too well-known now. Even I'm noticing the tactics he's employing and he repeated the same things for each debate; personalising each question given and answering the questioner directly whilst playing the whole "We haven't been in power for years" card a bit too much.

Cameron's improved over the 3 debates but could have and should have answered some of the questions better, especially when both Brown and Clegg put questions to him on the economy and Tory policies.

Brown seemed desperately negative and basically said, "I suck, but these 2 suck more!", and kept asking the same questions... which the other 2 had already answered. Anyone notice the nervous lip quivers in the middle?

And all 3 outright lied about there opponents policies.

Now who do I vote for?

Politicians lying? Surely, you jest!

A politician standing for election has two jobs:

1) Make his party look good

2) Make the other parties look bad.

Being a little dishonest is normal.

Vote for the one whose policies you agree with most. Ignore their speaking style, confidence, quality of dress and honesty about opponent's policies, because at the end of the day, when you vote, you are saying "I want this person to run the country for 4-5 years".

don't forget: ignore the dishonesty about their own policies.

Like I argued in that essay you read, ignorance rules in our democracy.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

bazmeistergen said:
Kantor said:
FootballFan said:

I've just been watching the great Margret Thatcher. There are amazing similarities between what Cameron has been saying to that of the iron lady. In particular, 2.00 onwards. If only Cameron had a more decisive role in the Conservative Party, he would have already won the election.

  

I think he's trying to lose the connection with Margaret Thatcher despite the fact that she's the best and most popular Prime Minister of the last half-decade. Britain today is far too socialist to vote in Thatcher again. But the most irritating thing is the way that, despite the fact that the Conservatives are getting so irritatingly left wing, everybody still says they are a rich person party.

Christ! Left-wing has really lost its true meaning if Labour and the Conservatives are considered to be anything other that right of centre. They are both totally establishment and both totally supportive of free market capitalism with some slight support of regulation, much of it self-regulation.

Some elements of Keynesian economics remain (and that was really just another way to support the monetary system) Both parties still support many of Hayek's liberalisation of the economy views.

Well why should Keynseian economic policies remain?  Anyone who believes in Keynseian economics are like 4-5 economic theories behind the times.  It was largely proven a failure in the examination of the great depression and WW2.

Very few people are still even Neo-Keynseian economists... it made a little comeback during the start of the financial crisis... but really Monetarists still rule the day... mostly because they've been proven the most right and tend to get the best results.

Complainging that there aren't any politicians that believe in Keynseian economics is like complaining there aren't any politicians who believe in Astrology.