Back to on-topic.

Most third-parties have struggled on the Wii because
(a) they have not given the customer something that they want (many Wii customers are different than PS3/Xbox 360 customers in terms of their desires);
(b) they have not put full effort into their offerings;
and/or
they have not marketed them properly (or often at all).

Basically, if you provide a product that no one wants, that is not of good quality, and then don't let anyone know about it -- it is not going to sell.

But if you find the "fun" factor and do it with gusto and advertise, you get a Carnival Games or a Just Dance.

Mike from Morgantown

mike_intellivision said: Back to on-topic. Most third-parties have struggled on the Wii because (a) they have not given the customer something that they want (many Wii customers are different than PS3/Xbox 360 customers in terms of their desires); (b) they have not put full effort into their offerings; and/or they have not marketed them properly (or often at all). Basically, if you provide a product that no one wants, that is not of good quality, and then don't let anyone know about it -- it is not going to sell. But if you find the "fun" factor and do it with gusto and advertise, you get a Carnival Games or a Just Dance. Mike from Morgantown

Just Dance wasn't heavily advertised until they noticed it was selling well...

Okay, since we're talking 3rd party sales:

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30478.msg581036#msg581036

There you go, now start listing all those amazing awesome 3rd party games that would sell 1 million + on PS360.

That horrible pathetic abomination of a list should be all the reason anyone needs as to why 3rd parties are failing horribly on the Wii. Looking for a genuinely good game in that pile of trash is like trying to find a virgin in a whorehouse. And no non-port 90+ rated games. Not a single one.

As far as Just Dance: go look at the user ratings. Yes lots of badly reviewed and badly selling games are also hated, but people who actually buy the game love it.

3rd parties fail in the Wii because they deserve to fail. It's not the install base, it's not some magic weird rule. What you should be saying is "holy shit, Just Dance sold over 2 million, imagine what a GOOD game could sell!"

Sadly we'll never know because 3rd parties won't release one. My guess is 10-20 million is well within in the realm of possibility. (but again, we'll never know)

1. That list is full of shitty games, the average is probably like 50 out of 100.

2.Where does it say sold at? All it does it proves publishers dont take the Wii seriously. Which is bullshit IMO.

3. I highly doubt people who actually buy the games like them, i know people who go out and buy games just because they recognize the name. My sister would buy Spongebob square pants before she would buy the Conduit or Babies.

4. The thing is about the Wii, people who buy games on the Wii dont care about games, they might play them fore one or two weeks but after that their bored. Im not saying all Wii owners but Casual gamers are.

5. There are plenty of good 3rd party games on the Wii, The Conduit and CoD 4.

1. I don't think you're getting it. That list is not cherry picked shitty games.

THAT LIST IS THE ENTIRE THIRD PARTY EFFORT BY MAJOR PUBLISHERS. LET THAT SINK IN.

2. Again, those "publishers" are the major ones. I really don't think you get it. There's no hidden box of magical games behind that list, that is full stop their best "effort" on the Wii.

3. "Highly doubt" all you want. Hell, "seriously doubt" while you're at it. If that doesn't work, then "refuse to believe."

From Amazon:

420 customer reviews

5-241

4-132

3-28

2-9

1-10

Here's a 4 star review:

********************

Bought this game for the kids based on the commercial showing all the activity and the songs. Told my wife we had to try it out first and she balked because it was late, after the kids were in bed. I nagged she gave in I lasted 3 songs she danced every song until 2 in the morning. She had so much fun the game never made it under the Xmas tree. The next day the whole family had a blast. That night friends came over and danced for 3 hours. I'm taking it to the company Xmas party.

Pros - It's fun, fun, fun. The best family or group game since Wii Sport Bowling. It doesn't take a huge amount of skill or even rhythm. It's for the very young, anyone who can get up and boogie or simply the young at heart. If you try to play the game as intended you will get one heck of a total aerobic workout especially the smile muscles.

Cons - Primarily it's just that there is only 30 songs and surprisingly it's not enough, the developers should or had to have known they needed more (so that's the 1 star deduction.) It isn't for hard core gamers who are driven to be able to conquer a stage, solve a puzzle, revel in a high score or master a total game. They simply won't get it at all. The scoring is not spot on for the competition minded. I imagine if you wanted to cheat and just move the wiimote you could bypass the fun all together. May be to much exercise for those with physical impairments.

*********************

Yeah they may not be your values for what makes a great game, but it sold 2,000,000 for a reason. Instead of calling them retards why not find out the reason people may like it? If I want to be myopic and just say my taste is law, Square Enix would cease to exist because no one could possibly find spikey hair loli shit with godawful dialogue enjoyable. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE SINCE I HATE THAT SHIT.

Read that review again and tell me if that person games for cinematic experience and story or if they just want something fun and social.

4. So you've done research into what a "casual" gamer is? You've been goin David Attenborough style following them with a camera? Where are you getting your iron clad information?  You could actually just as easily argue that people who buy Wii games are the ONLY ones who care about quality. We can't be sold the same game 3-4 times a generation, you're either up to Nintendo's incredibly high standards of game making or you can go fuck yourself, we don't want our games to be 2nd rate movies and would rather the gameplay mechanics were good, and we don't waste our money on shitty games like the Conduit.

This point needs some sources or it's just the usual kotaku "LOL CASUAL FAGGOTS" bullshit that's been spewing since day 1 about the Wii. So yeah, proof or GTFO. Especially since the Wii attach rate is neck and neck with PS3.

5. Interesting choice of examples.

Conduit: 69% on metacritic, seen as generic and bad FPS.

So basically when we're talking "good games" we're talking (other 69s on metacritic):

Alone in the Dark: Inferno

Conan

Tornado Outbreak

World Series of Poker

Enchanted Arms

WET

Section 8

Polar Panic

Def Jam Icon

Turok

Again this was one of the many many shitty Wii games. THIS WAS YOUR EXAMPLE OF A STAND OUT WII TITLE. See the company that stand out Wii title is in?

COD4: A port that's a year late is your idea of good Wii support?

3rd parties are failing because they deserve to fail. It blows my fucking mind that anyone could actually defend Wii 3rd parties.  If anything point 5 should drive home exactly why no one is buying anything but Nintendo games and why attach rate is so low. If anything Nintendo should be praised for keeping the fastest selling console in history afloat all by themselves.

First of all what are we arguing about? 

Second some publishers have put alot of effort in Wii games, just to have low sales.

Third "Bought this game for the kids based on the commercial showing all the activity and the songs" Exactly, you JUST proved my point. He didnt research the game before buying, it was an impulsive purchase and he bought it for his children.

Fifth- When most games on your console are shitty and receive scores below 50 then a game that gets a 69 is amazing and Motion Controls dont work great for gaming, this goes for Wii mote, Knock off mote and No mote knock off (Natal). They may be cool and gimmicky but they suck at advanced games. 

Greenberg is speaking ill of the Wii so that is acknowledgment and validation in itself. The guy feels it's his job but to me he's the definition of 'not helping'.

There must be some way to break the first party stranglehold. A tenth of Ninty's sw sales this gen = 100,000,000 games. That's enough 0s to rate another try.

It started out as bad third party performance on the Wii, I was just illustrating WHY third parties are failing on the Wii.  That "wall of shame" is every game each of those publishers put out on the Wii. 

It's the same old tired assed argument "Wii gamers aren't buying games that aren't made by Nintendo."  The joy of that wall is it puts all the 3rd party "effort" on the system in 1 place so you can see the whole thing.

Okay, let's say I own 2 restaurants. One is in LA and the other is in NY.

Let's say at my NY restaurant my chefs make the best lobster and steak dishes in the world, soups people would fly from all over the world to taste, and the best pastry chefs making the best desserts known to man. Obviously this place is booked months in advance and full every night, right?

Okay, now let's say at my LA restaurant I just come in every day by myself and take a big giant meaty watery stinky shit into a big gulp cup for anyone who comes in. No menu, no desserts, no waiters--just me taking a fat fucking nasty melted ice cream consistency peanut and corn laden shit into a big gulp cup.

Now imagine how fucking stupid I'd sound if I said "well this just goes to show people in NY have the real pallates and the people in LA hate food, and you can see this by how many people in to our NY restaurant every night and how many come into our LA restaurant"

The problem is this is the actual argument spewed over and over and over again by shitty websites like kotaku and all of the video game "journalists" out there. Everyone is so eager to say Wii owners hate games but no one is pointing out that, outside Nintendo themselves, publishers are taking giant nasty slimey overcooked noodle shits in big gulps and expecting Nintendo gamers to eat it up.

Yeah I flew off the handle, I aplogize for it. However, this there was no way around it, you were going to get a battleship shoved up your ass sideways for this:

:O

That's graphic.

I cant debate anymore, iv completely forgotten what my main point was lol.

I surrender.