By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - PC Discussion - Official Star Craft 2 Beta Thread

Gnizmo said:
mirgro said:

I thought the info came from the little drawings Zeratul found in the movie thing, not Kerrigan. I just feel like they are adding more things on SC's plate when there is plenty to resolve, mainly the zerg.

As for the Xel'Naga or the hybrids being overpowered, that's not true at all. The zerg drove them off and killed a bunch during the revolts, and the Zerg nearly wiped them out before the Zerg even had some of the cooler species in them. If anythign they sound all sorts of underpowered.

There has been a bit more expanded on it I believe. My understanding is Zeratul found that on a Zerg controlled world after a short meeting with Kerigan. She essentially says the same thing though. She senses the Xel'Naga coming, and it means trouble. This really isn't adding anything to the lore of Starcraft though. It is resolving the Xel'Naga parts of the lore which are kind of critical. Especially to the hybrids.

The Zerg did manage to beat them once, but Kerigan seem concerned by their return. Given her psychic abilities there would be reason to back her fear. More to the point, you would have to give the units the feel of the Xel'Naga, and they are definitely larger than life. Anything short of ridiculously powerful would seem out of place I think.

Well, everyone gets balanced out to be more 'fair'. Protoss vessels are "ridiculously powerful" compared to terrans. A single carrier wiped out a fleet a battlecruisers, in the lore. Yet in a game, they are evenly matched, and will lose if you factor in a yamato cannon.



Around the Network
mirgro said:
Gnizmo said:
mirgro said:

Except the goal of the Xel'Naga was not to create slaves. In fact it's said that they cherish all life, even whatever fucked up life they create. Their motive for creating races is because their own race was dying and they needed a successor, as pure as possible.

As for the Protoss game thing, they have explicitly stated that the campaign will be all terran and have just a few protoss missions for some sort of sense. Considering what Zeratul is supposedly doing, he seems to be relegated to exactly that duty until the next campaign or  two.

Lore ahead.

Where is it said that they cherish all life? Considering they left the Protoss in the middle of a nasty civil war with nothing more than an "Oops, our bad!" seems to contradict that. Regardless, you assume that the threat posed is a direct battle threat. They could simply be coming back to finish their experiment which could have some very nasty implications. You seem to be idealizing the race for some reason, but the lore points to them viewing lower species as little more than toys.

My friend's book. I can find you the quote online I bet.

I also agree that they don't do mcuh for other races other than observe them, but they would never be a "threat" that kills other races. From the perspective of the SC1 game, there is absolutely zero reason for the Xel'Naga to be any form of bad. I also wish Blizzard hadn't pussied out and made them a playable race, them or those hybrids.

Edit: 2nd paragraph of http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel%27naga

Well, a few things - first of all, a lot can change in several thousand years. Second, there are reasons they could come across as evil... What if they saw the strife between the races, particularly the havoc they were wreaking on more naturally evolved beings (the terrans) and felt they needed to undo their mistakes? What if, after being released, the voice in the darkness was able to corrupt them? What if the race is truely hitting the end of it's cycle, and now it returns to take advantage of its progeny, by absorbing or possessing them? The possibilities to villainize the Xel'Naga are endless.



Jereel Hunter said:
mirgro said:
Gnizmo said:
mirgro said:

Except the goal of the Xel'Naga was not to create slaves. In fact it's said that they cherish all life, even whatever fucked up life they create. Their motive for creating races is because their own race was dying and they needed a successor, as pure as possible.

As for the Protoss game thing, they have explicitly stated that the campaign will be all terran and have just a few protoss missions for some sort of sense. Considering what Zeratul is supposedly doing, he seems to be relegated to exactly that duty until the next campaign or  two.

Lore ahead.

Where is it said that they cherish all life? Considering they left the Protoss in the middle of a nasty civil war with nothing more than an "Oops, our bad!" seems to contradict that. Regardless, you assume that the threat posed is a direct battle threat. They could simply be coming back to finish their experiment which could have some very nasty implications. You seem to be idealizing the race for some reason, but the lore points to them viewing lower species as little more than toys.

My friend's book. I can find you the quote online I bet.

I also agree that they don't do mcuh for other races other than observe them, but they would never be a "threat" that kills other races. From the perspective of the SC1 game, there is absolutely zero reason for the Xel'Naga to be any form of bad. I also wish Blizzard hadn't pussied out and made them a playable race, them or those hybrids.

Edit: 2nd paragraph of http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel%27naga

Well, a few things - first of all, a lot can change in several thousand years. Second, there are reasons they could come across as evil... What if they saw the strife between the races, particularly the havoc they were wreaking on more naturally evolved beings (the terrans) and felt they needed to undo their mistakes? What if, after being released, the voice in the darkness was able to corrupt them? What if the race is truely hitting the end of it's cycle, and now it returns to take advantage of its progeny, by absorbing or possessing them? The possibilities to villainize the Xel'Naga are endless.

Then why would they be a threat to the Terrans? The voice in the darkness is something they already defeated, as such they probably know how it plays, making cirruption even less likely. The millenia old races never just randomly change, in fact they are the most conservative and cosistent of all other races. Picking out a bullshit reason is their best way to villainize them.



mirgro said:

Then why would they be a threat to the Terrans? The voice in the darkness is something they already defeated, as such they probably know how it plays, making cirruption even less likely. The millenia old races never just randomly change, in fact they are the most conservative and cosistent of all other races. Picking out a bullshit reason is their best way to villainize them.

The new race will have none of the culture of the Xel'Naga, but possibly a few of the old grudges of the parent races. Knowing Terrans, they will also find a way to piss off the new creations. Especially Megnsk, who might try to imprison the Xel'Naga simply for vivisection.

@Jereel
It is a matter of making the race still feel like it fits the lore. They scrapped the Burning Legion in WC3 over the exact same concerns. That is why I stand behind it so firmly.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:
mirgro said:

Then why would they be a threat to the Terrans? The voice in the darkness is something they already defeated, as such they probably know how it plays, making cirruption even less likely. The millenia old races never just randomly change, in fact they are the most conservative and cosistent of all other races. Picking out a bullshit reason is their best way to villainize them.

The new race will have none of the culture of the Xel'Naga, but possibly a few of the old grudges of the parent races. Knowing Terrans, they will also find a way to piss off the new creations. Especially Megnsk, who might try to imprison the Xel'Naga simply for vivisection.

@Jereel
It is a matter of making the race still feel like it fits the lore. They scrapped the Burning Legion in WC3 over the exact same concerns. That is why I stand behind it so firmly.

Warcraft3 however included the night Elves and the Undead as well though. The is no reason they couldn't have added another race in SC2.



Around the Network
mirgro said:
Jereel Hunter said:

Well, a few things - first of all, a lot can change in several thousand years. Second, there are reasons they could come across as evil... What if they saw the strife between the races, particularly the havoc they were wreaking on more naturally evolved beings (the terrans) and felt they needed to undo their mistakes? What if, after being released, the voice in the darkness was able to corrupt them? What if the race is truely hitting the end of it's cycle, and now it returns to take advantage of its progeny, by absorbing or possessing them? The possibilities to villainize the Xel'Naga are endless.

Then why would they be a threat to the Terrans? The voice in the darkness is something they already defeated, as such they probably know how it plays, making cirruption even less likely. The millenia old races never just randomly change, in fact they are the most conservative and cosistent of all other races. Picking out a bullshit reason is their best way to villainize them.

I was just spitballing. Besides, who says they are a threat to the terrans? They only need to be PERCEIVED as a threat for things to get ugly. Besides, they can't just be bad guys for trying to wipe out the protoss? Or there could be one of a thousand reasons the terrans get mixed up with them.

 

As for old races never "randomly" changing - who says? is that a rule somewhere? What about the Vorlons(or ancients) in Babylon 5? Or  The Protheans in Mass Effect? The ancients in StarGate? And who says it's random? The Xel'Naga were a race nearly destroyed by their own creations. If anything would change your perspective, that's it. Nearly being wiped out, and retreating for thousands of years means we have NO idea how they've changed. Infact, it would be BS to assume they are exactly the same.

Besides, wasn't it Zeratul who feared their return? He must have had a reason...

I mean, at the very least, they played God. They raised up the protoss, and gave them very different sources to draw their power from, simultaneously empowering and fracturing their people. That's about as conservative as Dr. Moreau.



mirgro said:

Warcraft3 however included the night Elves and the Undead as well though. The is no reason they couldn't have added another race in SC2.

Other than the fact that there is no viable fourth race, and they need to keep it distinct from Warcraft in terms of gameplay.  The only race, Xel'Naga, are against killing by lore (which is required in multiplayer) and suffer from being larger than life similar to the Burning Legion or Titans of Warcraft lore. To maintain the larger than life status would cause game balance to be impossible. While all the races have their impressive units and abilities in lore, they are always portrayed as being equal but inferior to the Xel'Naga save for a few sneak attacks here and there.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Gnizmo said:
mirgro said:

Warcraft3 however included the night Elves and the Undead as well though. The is no reason they couldn't have added another race in SC2.

Other than the fact that there is no viable fourth race, and they need to keep it distinct from Warcraft in terms of gameplay.  The only race, Xel'Naga, are against killing by lore (which is required in multiplayer) and suffer from being larger than life similar to the Burning Legion or Titans of Warcraft lore. To maintain the larger than life status would cause game balance to be impossible. While all the races have their impressive units and abilities in lore, they are always portrayed as being equal but inferior to the Xel'Naga save for a few sneak attacks here and there.

Because Night Elves and Undead were so terribly on the table back during Warcraft 2 Beyond the Dark Portal right? They managed to pull 2 races out of their ass, they could have easily done so for SC2 as well.



Do you guys even remember what you are arguing about? xD



I LOVE ICELAND!

I will never doubt Blizzard again...



I LOVE ICELAND!