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Forums - Nintendo - Why has Japanese 3rd party support almost completely ceased for the Wii?

jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:

"more for 3rd parties than Sony or MS"

If that was the Case Nintendo would have the best relation's with 3rd party publisher's and Developer's.

Well, as always, context is key.  How is Nintendo's relationship with Level-5? With Sega? With Square Enix? With Paon?  With Hudson?  Again, I specified that Nintendo's efforts are (unfortunately) pretty centered on the Japanese side of the development community, and that these are are only in some ways (specifically stuff like overseas publishing/promotion, IP/developer lending, etc).  Again, Nintendo doesn't believe in just doling out capital, though I'd argue Sony doesn't either and they've probably spent precious little themselves.

I've actually brought up numerous examples of Nintendo elevating, promoting, collaborating with 3rd parties.  Can you cite some comparable examples for Microsoft and Sony?  I can actually think of quite a few, but I'd like to know the perspective you're coming from?

sure:

example:

Reeves states that he is aware of the situation where publishers "cannot have exclusives unless they're given millions and millions of dollars not to develop a particular game for one particular platform." Instead, Sony plans to work with developers instead. He cites Quantic Dream's Heavy Rain, which he proclaims a "platform driver," as an example: "a great game, it takes a lot of time to develop, they need a little bit of funding, external development. In exchange, it's exclusive -- that works."

another example:

In addition to the introduction of new Reference Tool models, SCE will also enhance its support by providing a comprehensive line-up of software tools as well as technical support to the game development community. “SNC PPU toolchain for PLAYSTATION 3 (SNC)”, a compiler made available as part of the Software Development Kit* since February 2008, is optimized to the power of PS3 and generates high-quality code.  As a result, not only will it contribute to raising the quality of the game but also to significantly improving productivity.

SNC is widely supported by many developers and publishers for its quality and efficiency, and is utilized in some of the best-selling franchise titles including Fallout 3 from Bethesda Softworks LLC, Killzone 2 from Guerrilla Games, and Ryu ga Gotoku 3 from SEGA Corporation.  SCE will continue to further improve the performance of SNC and will expand its features to meet the needs of the game creators.

Additionally, at the Game Developer’s Conference held in San Francisco, California, in February 2008, SCE introduced a graphics-rendering engine known as the PhyreEngine™.  Provided as a full package along with its source code, and incorporated with many updated features including the linkage with the physics engines, this graphics rendering engine is adaptable to various game development styles.  Furthermore, documents describing the technical aspects and overview of PhyreEngine have been made available to help the game developer community in creating games more efficiently using this graphics engine.  The latest version 2.40, released in March 2009, includes a new “foliage rendering” system that provides tools and technology to render ultra-realistic tree s and plants to be easily integrated into games, helping game developers to express their creativity more freely on the PS3 system.


With more and more new and exciting PS3 titles scheduled for release this year from third party developers and publishers as well as from SCE Worldwide Studios, SCEI will deploy various measures to further reinforce game development for PS3 and will continue to expand the platform to offer attractive interactive entertainment experiences only available on PS3.



example for Microsoft:

Behind the scenes of Halo 3: ODST

The arrival of Halo 3: ODST is promising to take the game franchise in new directions, as Bungie Studios' Lars Bakken and Microsoft Game Studios' Ryan Crosby explain

Developers Ryan Crosby, and Lars Bakken.
example:
XNA Game Studio 3.1
Connecting to Your Xbox 360 Console with XNA Game Studio 3.1
Describes how to use XNA Game Studio Connect to connect and deploy a game to your Xbox 360 console.

XNA Game Studio makes it easy for you to create games for both your Windows-based computer and your Xbox 360 console. By joining the XNA Creators Club as a premium member and downloading XNA Game Studio, you can begin developing for your Windows-based computer. To begin developing for Xbox 360, follow these additional steps.

This guide assumes you have installed a supported version of Visual Studio tools and XNA Game Studio already. You must install these products before you connect to an Xbox 360 console. For information about installing these products, see Setup and System Requirements.

As you can see both also just with these 4 example's also help developer's also, There is many more, the point is many time's over both Microsoft and Sony are more than willing to promote IE: spend money investing into the 3rd party's project to help offset the cost's, they have been doing that for year's.

Though Nintendo is less likely to do so , but it's not expected for them too Nintendo is mainly promot'e 1st party, now not to say they don't promote some 3rd party's but Both Sony and Microsoft do it more which is one of the reason's it's an incentive for 3rd party's to keep putting their game's on the xbox360 and the playstation 3.

Which is why in many cases all these big award's they give out to game's the majority of them are for the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 and there are Quite a bit of those that are 3rd party getting those award's, but If you look at Nintendo's platform's the one's that get noticed for award's are 1st party mainly.

Heavy Rain's a good example for Sony, but it's almost a speciial case and afaik the only time they've funded a game they didn't own the IP to this gen.  It's basically like Microsoft with Mass Effect/Gears of War/Shadow Complex.  Nintendo's done this too with stuff like Fatal Frame 4 and Glory of Heracles.

And XNA is a hobbyist product.  It's basically like Net Yarouze or Wonderwitch.  SNC falls under tools/support/check, which is something every 1st party does.  It's like extolling Nintendo for Mario Club.



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jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
Wyrdness said:
joeorc said:
Wyrdness said:
milkyjoe said:
Do Microsoft and Sony really promote third party games themselves? I was always under the impression that those commercials for third party games with 'available on 360/PS3' stuck at the end were run by the developer/publisher themselves, and Sony/MS had merely paid for the bit at the end... I mean, you can immediately tell the difference between a Sony ad for a first party exclusive and an ad for a third party game on a Sony console...

You're right they are from publishers themselves, MS/Sony pay to have their console mentioned specifically unless it's a first/second party in which case they would be the publisher. If you look at FFXIII ads they have the available on 360 bit tagged on to give people the impression that they need a 360 for FFXIII, MS pay SE for this.

promote by Collins

  1. 1) verb, to further or encourage the progress or existence of
  2. 2) verb, to raise to a higher rank, status, degree, etc
  3. 3) verb, to advance (a pupil or student) to a higher course, class, etc
  4. 4) verb, to urge the adoption of; work for
  5. 5) verb, to encourage the sale of (a product) by advertising or securing financial support
  6. 6) verb, chess to exchange (a pawn) for any piece other than a king when the pawn reaches the 8th rank

so to Help with Cost's do you think 3rd party developer's need Cash to help sell their Software?

If you want me to make a Game for your system, would you think that 3rd party's are more likely to make a game if your company is willing to help off set the cost's in promotion of the 3rd party's software?

Sony an Microsoft do that.

but

do you See Nintendo doing that as much as Sony or Microsoft does?

Now if Nintendo is less likely to put promotion Money into the 3rd party's project while both Sony and Microsoft are what do you think would happen?

 

Tbh mate you're living up in the clouds a bit here, platform creators owe devs nothing, the only reason you see the financial muscling this gen is because Sony and MS are being given a hard battle by each other and being murdered by Nintendo, Sony never did it in the previous gens because they were the De Facto leaders of the last gens so never needed to until MS started making deals to break into third parties. It's more prominant today because HD development is expensive and most devs can't afford to be exclusive like in the previous so effectively you either have to rely on your first party or make deals.

 

Nintendo doesn't tend to do this because one they only make money from gaming and can't afford to squander and two they'd prefer a first party solution to solve it as they learned in the N64 era devs can just leave you hanging. Want an example look at the reaction to FFXIII becoming multi-platform after years of Sony boasting only on PS3, Nintendo learned from the N64 era, instead of trying to coax third parties into deals they look for their own solutions, Nintendo platforms never have loads of rpgs so they buy Monolith Soft to create games like Xenoblade for them and they create a new IP and colloborate with Sakaguchi and Mist Walker (yes it is an actual Nintendo team of various members developing while MW direct) in creating an RPG aimed at being their own FF like franchise.

 

They collaborate with third parties on their own first party ips to help bring new ideas and approaches to them like with Other M, in some cases if a third party has impress they do help push them like the way they're handling marketing for MH and localizing the DQ games. The reason being is Nintendo would rather be self sufficient then have to rely on others for their fate hence why they do their own thing.

Tbh mate you're living up in the clouds a bit here, platform creators owe devs nothing:

your right i never said they did, I was point out, that the reason why Nintendo does not get 3rd party to invest as much of their project's into the Wii has alot to do with the fact that Nintendo does not promote their software which is still pretty much true, because the majority of promotional support is for their 1st party offering's, which I would not blame them for, the OP asked why is 3RD party's not putting much effort into Wii development, and this May infact be one of the reason's why.

I am not saying it's the only reason, but it's just may be one of them.

as for not promoting 3rd party Game's an not doing that in the PS2 generation.

umm yes they  did...

example:

take for instance:

http://www.unitedfrontgames.com/

they are 3rd party

they make game's both for the xbox360 and the playstation 3

did Sony make the  POP video's  for that game in their add's or did

http://www.unitedfrontgames.com/

make the  POP VIDEO for the Add.?

now look at what is before the Video played, and what come's after.

noticed:

ModNation is a trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. Developed by United Front Games. ©2010 Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.

but yet you have had in the past many 3rd party game's get promotion $$$ by Sony for the PS2 just like there is for the PS3.

same with Microsoft xbox360.

 

 

 

Uh, ModNation Racers isn't a 3rd party game.  Sony owns it, they just hired UFG essentially.

This isn't Sony promoting a 3rd party game, it's literally Sony promoting their own game.

notice that did you,

who made the dea for the game Sony or UnitedFrontGame's?

even before Sony bought MM:

July 16, 2009

IGN: There are obvious ties to the LittleBigPlanet way of playing, creating and sharing content. Which bit of the ModNation Racers design/concept came first? Did you want to create a racing game with creation tools that then evolved to share similarities with LBP's methods, or did you look at LBP and decide that you wanted to do something similar but in a different genre, and then decided that racing was a good fit?

Mat Thomas: Our team at United Front Games has extensive knowledge of how to make AAA games, and in particular racing. From the outset we wanted to create a game that really pushed the genre and user generated content was a big part of that. We were fortunate enough to watch as LittleBigPlanet was being developed, and we are thrilled to see the gaming population endorse not only that title but also the Play, Create, Share genre.

IGN: What did you learn from LittleBigPlanet's approach to creating and sharing and how have you improved upon some of its ideas that maybe didn't work as well as they could have?

Mat Thomas: We noticed they did a lot right. Our number one creation goal in ModNation Racers was to let the user complete something meaningful very quickly. At E3, we demonstrated the creation and polishing of a track in less than 5 minutes. This blend of fast and powerful tools is key to satisfying both the curious and the serious player. Also, the PlayStation Network makes it easy to connect all our players together so sharing, rating, and downloading content is something we know all our users can do right out of the box.

IGN: Have you had any interaction with Media Molecule during the creation of the game?

Mat Thomas: Yes we have! We met Siobhan and Alex from Media Molecule after the SpikeTV awards. They were excited that we were also making a "user generated content" style game, and we believed in the Play Create Share genre. There were lots of great discussions about the rewards and challenges of making this type of game. The MM team gets our highest praise for being so friendly and keen to share their experiences.

 

UNITED FRONT GAMES announces partnership with Sony Computer Entertainment
Vancouver, B.C., Canada, June 2, 2009


United Front Games Ltd. is developing ModNation™ Racers, a creative twist on classic karting, designed exclusively for the PLAYSTATION® 3.

ModNation™ Racers puts innovation and creativity directly into the player's hands with simple, intuitive and fun tools to create custom characters, karts and race tracks. These can be shared and played freely by anyone in the world on the PlayStation®Network.

"We are excited to be creating an accessible, endlessly imaginative and original property. Our team is inspired to push the limits of player creativity in this new take on racing." said Julian Beak, Lead Producer. "Working directly with Sony is an honor."

"With the creative pedigree and vision of this team and our plans for the PLAY CREATE SHARE™ genre, this partnership was a great fit for our strategic vision of this emerging genre." said Scott Rohde, vice president of Product Development, Worldwide Studios America. "We are really happy to be working with United Front Games in bringing ModNation Racers to life, and excited to see what our consumers will create when they get to play in 2010."

ModNation™ Racers was officially unveiled to the world during Sony's E3 press conference. For more details visit the Sony PlayStation™ blog.

ModNation is a trademark of Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. Developed by United Front Games. ©2010 Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc.

 

1110 Hamilton Street - 5th Floor, Vancouver, British Columbia, V6B 2S2 ph. 604.687.4263
www.unitedfrontgames.com
So it was not just Sony going to them and saying hey create this game will you.

 

It doesn't matter from where the concept sprang, what matters is that it's Sony's game.  They own it, whole hog.  If you really want to start listing contracted 3rd party products, Nintendo blows away both Sony and Microsoft in sheer number.



joeorc on 25 March 2010
Innervate said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 

3rd party titles get adequate promotion from Nintendo. This should be even more apparent, as Nintendo is doing the marketing and localization jobs for many 3rd parties for titles such as Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter Tri.

are they?

think about this:

on Nintendo platform's which games win the Most award's 1st party or 3rd party?

just look at the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 look at fallout 3 as an example:

Fallout 3

The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.

On

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
Innervate said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 

3rd party titles get adequate promotion from Nintendo. This should be even more apparent, as Nintendo is doing the marketing and localization jobs for many 3rd parties for titles such as Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter Tri.

are they?

think about this:

on Nintendo platform's which games win the Most award's 1st party or 3rd party?

just look at the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 look at fallout 3 as an example:

Fallout 3

The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.

On

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

 

 

Trying to repaint effect as causation is a classic strawman.  Fact of the matter is, the entire industry was basically fixated on HD R&D before the generation even began, and pretty much everyone's been slow or unwilling to actually follow the market shift.  This is precisely why 3rd parties have been more "successful" on the combined PS360 "platform", because that's pretty much where they decided they'd be successful.

With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales?  



joeorc on 25 March 2010
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 

3rd party titles get adequate promotion from Nintendo. This should be even more apparent, as Nintendo is doing the marketing and localization jobs for many 3rd parties for titles such as Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter Tri.

are they?

think about this:

on Nintendo platform's which games win the Most award's 1st party or 3rd party?

just look at the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 look at fallout 3 as an example:

Fallout 3

The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.

On

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

 

 

Trying to repaint effect as causation is a classic strawman.  Fact of the matter is, the entire industry was basically fixated on HD R&D before the generation even began, and pretty much everyone's been slow or unwilling to actually follow the market shift.  This is precisely why 3rd parties have been more "successful" on the combined PS360 "platform", because that's pretty much where they decided they'd be successful.

With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales?  

Once again is it?

"With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales? "

an this is a very Valid Question:

shitty sales:

On April 16, 2009, Ubisoft revealed that the game has sold 8 million copies to date.

8 million Shitty sale's

would Assassin's Creed sold 8 million on the Wii ?

Maybe it could, but on the same token would it be ranked 2nd or 3rd on the Wii?

once again I very Much Doubt it

I will say again

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

again

 Assassin's Creed has greatly outstripped Ubisoft's sales expectations and currently ranks among the top two or three best-selling games for the PlayStation 3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system in the vast majority of geographical regions.

 

Once again would a game like Assassin's creed have been the one of the to 2nd or 3rd best selling game's on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

once again I am betting No



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 

3rd party titles get adequate promotion from Nintendo. This should be even more apparent, as Nintendo is doing the marketing and localization jobs for many 3rd parties for titles such as Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter Tri.

are they?

think about this:

on Nintendo platform's which games win the Most award's 1st party or 3rd party?

just look at the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 look at fallout 3 as an example:

Fallout 3

The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.

On

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

 

 

Trying to repaint effect as causation is a classic strawman.  Fact of the matter is, the entire industry was basically fixated on HD R&D before the generation even began, and pretty much everyone's been slow or unwilling to actually follow the market shift.  This is precisely why 3rd parties have been more "successful" on the combined PS360 "platform", because that's pretty much where they decided they'd be successful.

With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales?  

Once again is it?

"With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales? "

an this is a very Valid Question:

shitty sales:

On April 16, 2009, Ubisoft revealed that the game has sold 8 million copies to date.

8 million Shitty sale's

would Assassin's Creed sold 8 million on the Wii ?

Maybe it could, but on the same token would it be ranked 2nd or 3rd on the Wii?

once again I very Much Doubt it

I will say again

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

again

 Assassin's Creed has greatly outstripped Ubisoft's sales expectations and currently ranks among the top two or three best-selling games for the PlayStation 3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system in the vast majority of geographical regions.

 

Once again would a game like Assassin's creed have been the one of the to 2nd or 3rd best selling game's on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

once again I am betting No

I'm not sure what your obsession with "ranking" is, a sale's a sale?  It's not like Nintendo doesn't blow everyone away regardless of platform... if that was the standard for entering a market, why make videogames at all since you'll never make the top 10 as long as Nintendo makes games?  If a game will do 2m on a Nintendo platform but rank 100th, versus 1 million elsewhere and rank 50th, you really think any 3rd party would choose the latter?

Speaking of Ubisoft though, it looks like Just Dance is on track to be their best selling game... well ever.  And it's Wii exclusive, imagine that...



joeorc on 25 March 2010
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
jarrod said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:
joeorc said:
Innervate said:

Even the announcement that the next Dragon Quest game being exclusive to Wii did nothing to help support for the system in Japan. Many people stated that this basically clinches all support for the Wii there - instead, even the iPhone is seeing more support. NIS would rather risk bankruptcy on the PS3 than put anything other than PS2 ports on the Wii, several games from publishers like Capcom and Namco are showing up on PSP and iPhone (when Wii ports were considered 'impossible'), Square-Enix's upcoming projects (newly announced KH games in development/conceptual stage, FF remakes) will likely not go to the Wii, and the list goes on. Even when they do give us worthwhile software, majority of the time it's sent to die in retail or conflicts with the values that Wii owners want in Wii games, limiting their sales and contributing to the fallacy that 3rd parties can't succeed on the Wii.

3rd parties have built a reputation of distrust and animosity with Wii owners, and unless they do something that will never change. We have already put up with 3 and a half years of inadequate support, broken promises and bad excuses.

See I don't think it's the 3rd party's that are the problem, It's the fact that Nintendo has little promotion for third party software for their Wii. that Is a big problem for 3rd party,

One I think may be changing, but the big indication is 3rd party software seem's to be promoted very little by Nintendo, while 3rd party Game's on both the xbox360 and the playstation 3 get's promotion more so than what Nintendo does.

Nintendo see's that they do not need the 3rd party's , and they are right Nintendo is there to sell Nintendo software first and 3rd party's 3rd, the Main problem is if Nintendo is not very willing to promote the 3rd party's software 3rd party's are less likely to make game's for the system.

 

3rd party titles get adequate promotion from Nintendo. This should be even more apparent, as Nintendo is doing the marketing and localization jobs for many 3rd parties for titles such as Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter Tri.

are they?

think about this:

on Nintendo platform's which games win the Most award's 1st party or 3rd party?

just look at the xbox360 and the Playstation 3 look at fallout 3 as an example:

Fallout 3

The Xbox 360 version was the 14th best-selling game of December 2008 in the United States, while the PlayStation 3 version was the eighth best-selling PlayStation 3 game in that region and month.

On

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

 

 

Trying to repaint effect as causation is a classic strawman.  Fact of the matter is, the entire industry was basically fixated on HD R&D before the generation even began, and pretty much everyone's been slow or unwilling to actually follow the market shift.  This is precisely why 3rd parties have been more "successful" on the combined PS360 "platform", because that's pretty much where they decided they'd be successful.

With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales?  

Once again is it?

"With Wii it's a pure chicken/egg scenario, which came first the shitty 3rd party support or the shitty 3rd party sales? "

an this is a very Valid Question:

shitty sales:

On April 16, 2009, Ubisoft revealed that the game has sold 8 million copies to date.

8 million Shitty sale's

would Assassin's Creed sold 8 million on the Wii ?

Maybe it could, but on the same token would it be ranked 2nd or 3rd on the Wii?

once again I very Much Doubt it

I will say again

Nintendo's platform on the chart's would Fallout 3 have been the 8th or 14th best selling game on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

I am betting No

You would have to Ask why is that ?

again

 Assassin's Creed has greatly outstripped Ubisoft's sales expectations and currently ranks among the top two or three best-selling games for the PlayStation 3 computer entertainment system and Xbox 360 video game and entertainment system in the vast majority of geographical regions.

 

Once again would a game like Assassin's creed have been the one of the to 2nd or 3rd best selling game's on the Wii?

Against the like's of Nintendo's 1st party game's?

once again I am betting No

I'm not sure what your obsession with "ranking" is, a sale's a sale?  It's not like Nintendo doesn't blow everyone away regardless of platform... if that was the standard for entering a market, why make videogames at all since you'll never make the top 10 as long as Nintendo makes games?  If a game will do 2m on a Nintendo platform but rank 100th, versus 1 million elsewhere and rank 50th, you really think any 3rd party would choose the latter?

Speaking of Ubisoft though, it looks like Just Dance is on track to be their best selling game... well ever.  And it's Wii exclusive, imagine that...

Just Dance

an

Assassins Creed

"why make videogames at all since you'll never make the top 10 as long as Nintendo makes games"

ahh, but the 3rd party's can Make the Top 10, just not on the Wii !.

Getting Award's also help's with the percieved Value of what the Software is worth.

yea like their in the same target Market. o'l brother...

look while I respect you and All, like I said you May sell great on the Wii, but also on the same token, Movies are made to also get Award's not just money.

"Speaking of Ubisoft though, it looks like Just Dance is on track to be their best selling game... well ever.  And it's Wii exclusive, imagine that..."

and the Award for ..Ol that's right where is the Award's for that game?

Despite the reviewers' criticism, the game appears to have been well received by the players themselves. It has a favourable 8/10 user rating One user wrote: "I could care less at what score it gives me, or who wins, it is just plain fun to play."

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

jarrod on 25 March 2010
joeorc said:

Just Dance

an

Assassins Creed

"why make videogames at all since you'll never make the top 10 as long as Nintendo makes games"

ahh, but the 3rd party's can Make the Top 10, just not on the Wii !.

Getting Award's also help's with the percieved Value of what the Software is worth.

yea like their in the same target Market. o'l brother...

look while I respect you and All, like I said you May sell great on the Wii, but also on the same token, Movies are made to also get Award's not just money.

"Speaking of Ubisoft though, it looks like Just Dance is on track to be their best selling game... well ever.  And it's Wii exclusive, imagine that..."

and the Award for ..Ol that's right where is the Award's for that game?

Despite the reviewers' criticism, the game appears to have been well received by the players themselves. It has a favourable 8/10 user rating One user wrote: "I could care less at what score it gives me, or who wins, it is just plain fun to play."

 

 

3rd parties can't make top ten in this industry. Period. That's why your ranking obsession seems a bit silly.

And now you're arguing "awards"? lol!  Keep digging that hole...



jarrod on 25 March 2010

Anyway, back to more tangible talk, I think Nintendo should really start going out of their way in the western development community moreso. The only real outreach I can even think of for them is a few motion plus bundles (Tiger Woods 09, NHL2K9, RS2), Retro Studios helping out Ubi on RS2 and Nintendo promoting the fuck out of World of Goo (and also publishing it in Japan). Anything else?



LordTheNightKnight on 25 March 2010

"Anyway, back to more tangible talk, I think Nintendo should really start going out of their way in the western development community moreso. The only real outreach I can even think of for them is a few motion plus bundles (Tiger Woods 09, NHL2K9, RS2), Retro Studios helping out Ubi on RS2 and Nintendo promoting the fuck out of World of Goo (and also publishing it in Japan). Anything else?"

I think they should buy out Take Two. Not for the GTA IP as much as getting some decent management in there. They would have let the Red Dead Redemption team actually do their job.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs