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Forums - Sales Discussion - 360 Slim + Nata l...how can Sony counter?...Is GT5 enough?

Sony needs a real killer app Move game at launch, not the crap they showed at GDC (which consumers are gonna spot as knock-off wii imitations and not gather any buzz at all). They need something that gets peoples attention and shows that they are taking motion controls to the next level. Otherwise i dont see it taking off at all, especially if its as pricey as it seems to be- for a single player to pay close to $150 to get all the required accessories- 2 move controllers, nunchuck, PSeye is too much. than you have to consider that casual players (the wii market that sony is targetting) dont want to play by themselves which will drive the costs even higher.



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They'd better test if thoroughly this time if they do have a Slim version planned.  Another RROD incident would be catastrophic!



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MonstaMack said:
huaxiong90 said:
1. To combat Halo: Reach, GT5 should suffice. GT5 may not be as front-loaded as Halo, but it has the benefit of being the first main title to hit the PS3.

2. To combat Natal, Sony needs to have killer software for Move and advertise it very well. It also must be priced reasonably.

3. And finally, to counter the 360 slim, Sony can do another revision and drop the price. But they need to be quick.

I'm curious as to what you mean by main title?

Looking at PS2 best sellers Gran Turismo is the only big title left from the top 10 sellers on PS2 not yet released. Obviously Medal of Honor and Need for Speed don't sell as much as they use to.

 

Either way I don't see a price cut to $150 and slim revision still beating the PS3 constitently world wide. But thats just me.

Flagship title.



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

brythoma said:
Sony needs a real killer app Move game at launch, not the crap they showed at GDC (which consumers are gonna spot as knock-off wii imitations and not gather any buzz at all). They need something that gets peoples attention and shows that they are taking motion controls to the next level. Otherwise i dont see it taking off at all, especially if its as pricey as it seems to be- for a single player to pay close to $150 to get all the required accessories- 2 move controllers, nunchuck, PSeye is too much. than you have to consider that casual players (the wii market that sony is targetting) dont want to play by themselves which will drive the costs even higher.


Is it really $150?  I hadn't heard any prices announced yet!



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@heedstone

they announced that the starter pack (which includes the PSeye and 1 move controller) would be less than $100 (most likely btwn $80 and $100), and im assuming 1 stand-alone move controller would cost at least $40, and a nunchuck would be $20 at best.



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brythoma said:
@heedstone

they announced that the starter pack (which includes the PSeye and 1 move controller) would be less than $100 (most likely btwn $80 and $100), and im assuming 1 stand-alone move controller would cost at least $40, and a nunchuck would be $20 at best.


Hmmm, that's not so bad assuming that they bundle a move game with it



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djs said:
As long as Sony has Kevin Butler there's nothing to worry about...


As long as Sony can time travel into the future there's nothing to worry about...



nightsurge said:

Impulsivity said:
I really have no idea why Natal is such a big deal. I mean Sony has something very similar to Natal (complete with a lot of the ball minigames and other such things that were in the natal tech demo) called the eyetoy. It was gimicky and very few people really used it.

Controllers with buttons (though less buttons) that track movement are a vastly superior solution that is applicable to way more game types. I loved playing Resident Evil 4 on the Wii but couldn't imagine games like that on Natal. What am I going to do, use my finger as a gun?

The preview stuff for Move looks awesome to boot. Especially that fighting game they keep showing. I think the onus really falls more on MS this year to prove theres any compelling reason to own a 360 besides more rehash of the same space marine series. With Heavy Rain, God of War III, Move and soon Gran Turismo all the buzz is on the Sony side of things lately, and I don't really see that changing this year.

I find it highly unlikely that the 360 will be anything better then 4th in Worldwide sales and has a chance of dropping to 5th behind the PSP.

1.  When Move is able to track more than 2 small points in space, let me know.  Natal can track 48 points on a person in 3D space.

2.  Crackdown 2, Halo: Reach, Alan Wake, Splinter Cell, and I'm sure many more games will be plenty to counter any Sony game lineup.  So far this year the buzz has seemed pretty neutral or mostly leaning towards MS side with Mass Effect 2, slim rumors, etc.

3.  360 will have a slim + natal + price cut waiting for it this year.  PS3 will have no price cut at all.  Especially if they want to bundle Move with a console (which may even see the entry prices go higher).

Unlike you, I find it highly unlikely that the 360 will be lower than 3rd worldwide (above PS3 and below the Wii).  That you mentioned it had a chance of slipping below the PSP I hope was surely just a joke, because otherwise it would just make the rest of what you put seem a bit biased and illogical.

  First I said 5th because it would be behind both the DS and PSP.  It will for sure be 4th behind the DS, the PSP really depends on how the rest of the year goes and whether theres a big price drop.  VG chartz dracks mobile devices along with consoles, so it would seem they're fair game (after all if I have 300 dollars to spend on video games and I spend it on a handheld+games it really does take away from dollars spent on consoles does it not?)

 

  As to point 1. something a certain kind of tech fanboy never gets is it is never ever about the specs.  They always were talking about how the Archos had more hard drive space then the ipod, how the Zune HD has much better specs then the ipod touch, how android is so much more customizable and has this and that feature....and then their spec based product falls behind easy to use not as well speced alternatives because what matters is the TOTAL DEVICE not points on a checklist.  That is why the Wii, the ipod, the iphone, the ipod touch and other such easy to use divices have been the big winners.

  It is almost impossible for most people to tell the difference between Natal and something like the eyetoy or webcam games which have been around forever.  You can talk about this or that point in 3D space, but it really looks like more of the same.  I remember playing games like Tekken at Dave and Busters using motion sensors like Natal, it was awful to say the least trying to match eddy's movements and everything that played well you could more or less do with an Eyetoy.

   That is why the Move will almost certainly do better, people know the Wii solution, they like it, the Move is a slightly better version of that which you can do with games that don't look so 2001 as Wii games do, win win.  

  As to 2) Crackdown was an also ran game that only did even remotely well because it came with a Halo Demo, Splinter Cell is coming for PC, and if history is any indication wtih SC games Sony systems as well, Halo...I mean who is interested in more space marine games that hasn't already bought a 360 years ago?  That won't expand the market at all.

   Alan Wake might or might not, I have a hard time imagining it getting the buzz of something like Heavy Rain which I kept running into even on completely non video game related sites (even on the front page of the New York Times).  Something tells me it will be like a better version of Silent Hill more then a revolutionary gameplay experience like Heavy Rain.  All the game buzz has been on the Sony side for a good while now, and it seems like that will continue through the end of the year with a short break for Halo (though I don't remember the ODST spinoff making that big a splash, maybe the ship has sailed post Halo 3?)

 

  As to 3) Exactly 1 Gamestop in the entire LA area has a PS3 at 299 in stock today, and only 1 PS3 at that (out of 50 gamestops).  It's backordered on all the online sites.  I can find a 360 anywhere, hundreds of them sitting there.  I doubt Sony is that worried about demand at this point in time.  I doubt 50 bucks off a no hard drive no wifi no blu ray 360 is going to make a huge difference.




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Assuming that the 360slim is indeed a fact, and i'll say that this is probably going to happen imho, it doesn't look like it will have the same impact as the PS3 slim design.

Why?

-The 360 started off smaller than the PS3 so the 360 already has had a slim design
-The 360 was much more unreliable as far as heating than the PS3. And therefore, the 360 won't be able to reduce size as much as if heat was never a big deal.

Those two factors will limit as to how much MS will be able to trim down the 360.

So, in summary, if MS can knock off a few bucks on production cost great for them, but I dont see how this will be that big of a deal.



Impulsivity said:
nightsurge said:

Impulsivity said:
I really have no idea why Natal is such a big deal. I mean Sony has something very similar to Natal (complete with a lot of the ball minigames and other such things that were in the natal tech demo) called the eyetoy. It was gimicky and very few people really used it.

Controllers with buttons (though less buttons) that track movement are a vastly superior solution that is applicable to way more game types. I loved playing Resident Evil 4 on the Wii but couldn't imagine games like that on Natal. What am I going to do, use my finger as a gun?

The preview stuff for Move looks awesome to boot. Especially that fighting game they keep showing. I think the onus really falls more on MS this year to prove theres any compelling reason to own a 360 besides more rehash of the same space marine series. With Heavy Rain, God of War III, Move and soon Gran Turismo all the buzz is on the Sony side of things lately, and I don't really see that changing this year.

I find it highly unlikely that the 360 will be anything better then 4th in Worldwide sales and has a chance of dropping to 5th behind the PSP.

1.  When Move is able to track more than 2 small points in space, let me know.  Natal can track 48 points on a person in 3D space.

2.  Crackdown 2, Halo: Reach, Alan Wake, Splinter Cell, and I'm sure many more games will be plenty to counter any Sony game lineup.  So far this year the buzz has seemed pretty neutral or mostly leaning towards MS side with Mass Effect 2, slim rumors, etc.

3.  360 will have a slim + natal + price cut waiting for it this year.  PS3 will have no price cut at all.  Especially if they want to bundle Move with a console (which may even see the entry prices go higher).

Unlike you, I find it highly unlikely that the 360 will be lower than 3rd worldwide (above PS3 and below the Wii).  That you mentioned it had a chance of slipping below the PSP I hope was surely just a joke, because otherwise it would just make the rest of what you put seem a bit biased and illogical.

  First I said 5th because it would be behind both the DS and PSP.  It will for sure be 4th behind the DS, the PSP really depends on how the rest of the year goes and whether theres a big price drop.  VG chartz dracks mobile devices along with consoles, so it would seem they're fair game (after all if I have 300 dollars to spend on video games and I spend it on a handheld+games it really does take away from dollars spent on consoles does it not?)

 

  As to point 1. something a certain kind of tech fanboy never gets is it is never ever about the specs.  They always were talking about how the Archos had more hard drive space then the ipod, how the Zune HD has much better specs then the ipod touch, how android is so much more customizable and has this and that feature....and then their spec based product falls behind easy to use not as well speced alternatives because what matters is the TOTAL DEVICE not points on a checklist.  That is why the Wii, the ipod, the iphone, the ipod touch and other such easy to use divices have been the big winners.

So I guess since Natal will be easier for casuals to understand and use, and will have great marketing behind it (the other cause of those you mentioned successes) you are saying Natal will be the more popular, higher selling choice?  I agree with this.

  It is almost impossible for most people to tell the difference between Natal and something like the eyetoy or webcam games which have been around forever.  You can talk about this or that point in 3D space, but it really looks like more of the same.  I remember playing games like Tekken at Dave and Busters using motion sensors like Natal, it was awful to say the least trying to match eddy's movements and everything that played well you could more or less do with an Eyetoy.

   That is why the Move will almost certainly do better, people know the Wii solution, they like it, the Move is a slightly better version of that which you can do with games that don't look so 2001 as Wii games do, win win.  

Only, the people who buy the Wii could care less about having HD graphics and aren't going to spend even more money to get a PS3 for something they can have on the Wii.  At least with Natal it would be cheaper and something different.  Oh and I guess you are one of the people that still fails to realize that Natal is targetting the hundreds of millions of people that don't even play games on the Wii because they can't grasp using a controller at all.

  As to 2) Crackdown was an also ran game that only did even remotely well because it came with a Halo Demo, Splinter Cell is coming for PC, and if history is any indication wtih SC games Sony systems as well, Halo...I mean who is interested in more space marine games that hasn't already bought a 360 years ago?  That won't expand the market at all.

Neither will any Sony game released.  Their last big system seller is GT5.  After that, no games released will really expand the market for any console.  Also, I don't see how Splinter Cell on PC has anything to do with the conversation.  If it goes PS3 it will be months later, but I still doubt it ever will.  SC has always been much more popular on Xbox than PC or Playstation.

   Alan Wake might or might not, I have a hard time imagining it getting the buzz of something like Heavy Rain which I kept running into even on completely non video game related sites (even on the front page of the New York Times).  Something tells me it will be like a better version of Silent Hill more then a revolutionary gameplay experience like Heavy Rain.  All the game buzz has been on the Sony side for a good while now, and it seems like that will continue through the end of the year with a short break for Halo (though I don't remember the ODST spinoff making that big a splash, maybe the ship has sailed post Halo 3?)

Yay, more failed logic and anti Halo talk.  I mean I knew this whole time you really have no clue what you are talking about, and this post just further adds to that.  How can you call Heavy Rain revolutionary?  Games like Heavy Rain have been around for years.  Including Quantic Dream's own past games.  I don't know where you follow this "game buzz" but it seems like MS has been reaping all of that for 2010 so far.  Mass Effect 2 was a big splash.  All the talk of Natal, 360 slim, price cut, etc will ensure the 360 keeps the game buzz and will outsell the PS3 WW for 2010.

 

  As to 3) Exactly 1 Gamestop in the entire LA area has a PS3 at 299 in stock today, and only 1 PS3 at that (out of 50 gamestops).  It's backordered on all the online sites.  I can find a 360 anywhere, hundreds of them sitting there.  I doubt Sony is that worried about demand at this point in time.  I doubt 50 bucks off a no hard drive no wifi no blu ray 360 is going to make a huge difference.

How does any of that apply to what I said?  They are failing to meet "demand" becaus they are artificially causing it.  They could easily catch up with demand by now.  They were able to produce millions of PS3 slims in just 1 month in time to have them ready for the holidays so why would they suddenly be unable to meet demand when it has dropped a lot since the holidays?  As I said before, the Premium/Pro/Elite system has always been the dominant selling SKU.  A price drop on that will easily spur sales well past the PS3.  In fact, it appears that the PS3 must have a much higher perceived value than the PS3.  You admit that yourself if people are still willing to buy it when the PS3 comes with so much more for the same price.  That actually makes the PS3 seem worse off when you say it that way, so I suggest you reconsider your strategy.