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Forums - General Discussion - Why do people vote for Hilary and Obama?

^ You mean those southern "democrats" who eventually switched over to the Republican party?



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XBL: GratuitousFREEK

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ripper said:
@knuckles

everything you name (almost) happened 50 years ago or more, way before the dems sold their souls, lost their morals and sold out.

also, the civil rights act was almost stopped by southern DEMOCRATS

you mean the green laws that have pushed gas prices in cali up to 5 bucks? or the ones that created huge gas lines in the 70's jimmy carter that is all i have to say!! 20% home loans anybody?

If the liberal have their way we will all be living in commune style 'dense' housing taking the bus to work and paying 75% in taxes. no thanks

Ha ha ha ha ha ha, here's where you get yourself into trouble.

 

Those Democrats that tried to stop the Civil Rights Act? They became Republicans. It was the Democratic president (LBJ) who pushed it through, not the Republicans. IF LBJ hadn't gone ahead and done what was right, the South would still be Democrat land.

Since LBJ there have been how many Democratic presidents? So I'm sure you see the problem with saying that the Democrats haven't done anything. Your friend Jimmy Carter also set your favored economic policies in action, so maybe you shouldn't criticize him unless you actually know about him. You know not what you speak of, I'm sorry to say it, but it's true.



NinjaguyDan said:
^ You mean those southern "democrats" who eventually switched over to the Republican party?

I believe the proper term is "Dixiecrats"



What is your point? they were dems, just like the 'dems' who won all those wars as presidet (ha ha) would be politically conservative by todays standards. BECAME republicans? Like your boy Senator Byrd? The klan member? last time I checked he was a ranking member of the dems.

The truth is the dems of 07 stand for special interest groups, abortion, gay rights, and to support the so called opression of minority groups. what IDEAS do libs have? besides tax and spend... and killing unborn babies due to the irresponibilities of ADULTS



additonally, you can laugh at the conservatives and abortion all you want but that is the number one reason there have not been very many dem presidents over the last 30 years! you people are killing your OWN constituents!!!



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takeru51 said:
elprincipe said:
Nintendownsmii said:
leo-j said:
Hilary is going to give free medicare for everyone..

Umm... have you even heard her policy? It is NOT free. Infact those who currently can't, or choose not to, pay for health care will get screwed because she will make it law that you have to have health care.


This is a common misconception, especially among underage folks who know little about politics like leo-j. OMGWTFBBQ, the government is paying for it so that means it's FREE!!11!111! Anyone who knows anything will realize that government, being less efficient than the private sector in every single thing it ever has done in its history, will spend more of our money (involuntarily, unlike the current system) on health care than we do now, and the service will be worse. Or we will spend the same amount and the service will be much, much worse. Or we will spend a ton more and the service will be the same. Bottom line, we, the taxpayers, lose. Although I guess leo-j doesn't pay taxes, so no big deal, right?


Believe it or not, you're the one with the common misconception. Do you think that the United States is the only industrialized country without socialized medicine because it's better that way? Please, we've been lied to about public healthcare for decades. Our country has become worse over the past 4-5 decades as we've lost many of the government assitance programs that made oppertunity so widespread here. Ronald Raegan was the worst thing to ever happen to this country, I would argue he was even a worse president than George Bush or Richard Nixon because it was Raegan who did such disasterous damage to the people, then lied to our faces about it. If you want more clarification of this, please just ask me. I could write pages on the regression our country has been going through over the past few decades, but to get back to the original point, you are very, very, wrong.


 Reagan was a horrible president,  I had to live through all eight excruciating years.

In 1985 I received my very first tax refund (min wage $3.35/hr - 30hrs wk), what a waste of a good stamp.

 Basically, he cut taxes for the VERY wealthy and made the bottom 80% of wage earners pay for it.  Redistribution of wealth from the poor to the rich. 

 



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It's true that public health care isn't actually free.

It's just massively more efficient.

How about I throw some numbers on this health care debate.

In 2003, health care costs in the USA consumed 15.2% of GDP. This compares to 11.5% in Switzerland, the next highest spender. How big a deal is that 3.7% difference? Well, 3.7% of GDP happens to be the size of US military spending, which accounts for nearly half of global military spending.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/349/8/768

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/military-relative-size.php

All that money must buy the best health care in the world, right? Not so much. A World Health Organization report in 2000 places the US at 15th in the world in terms of goal attainment.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_systems.html

So where does that money go? Well, a lot gets eaten up by massive administration costs. 31% of US health expenditure goes to pushing paper, compared to 16.7% or Canada's health expenses. Canada spends 9.9% of GDP on health, by the way.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/349/8/768

I'm not going to say that Canada, or other public health care systems are perfect. I think we'd know if somebody had a magic formula. But it's hard to deny there are very real and substantial benefits to having a partially public health care system.

I laughed when Clinton said that her health care plan wouldn't be government run. I translated the statement to be "I'm going to waste huge amounts of time and money pretending to do something about out health care system."

By the way, as of 2005, US health care costs have risen to 16% of GDP.



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ripper said:
What is your point? they were dems, just like the 'dems' who won all those wars as presidet (ha ha) would be politically conservative by todays standards. BECAME republicans? Like your boy Senator Byrd? The klan member? last time I checked he was a ranking member of the dems.

The truth is the dems of 07 stand for special interest groups, abortion, gay rights, and to support the so called opression of minority groups. what IDEAS do libs have? besides tax and spend... and killing unborn babies due to the irresponibilities of ADULTS



Unfortunately, you're very wrong again. Our country has gotten more conservative over the years, not more liberal. The mid-century Democrats were overwhelmingly in the government assistance camp. In fact, they were the ones who introduced it to our country.

Tax and spend is a complete myth. Look it up, the only presidents who have been "fiscally responsible" since 1960 were Democrats.

It's very telling that you think that supporting gay rights is a bad thing. Tell me, why is it right to deny two living people happiness, but it's wrong to stop an unborn baby from being born into an unloving family? How closed minded and small you are. I have a feeling I'm younger than you, since according to your profile you're married, but I am horribly embarassed for you. I will not talk politics with you again out of embarassment that people in this country would form such strong opinions without knowing facts and history. It's a shame the rest of the world judges us by such actions. Please, I assure you that we are not all crazy... Some of us are simply unaware of reality.



@takeru

Since you have decide to make this personal here goes: You are a typical smarmy liberal piece of crap who thinks you are smarter than everyone else. You also think you know best for everyone, comrade. I didn't say i thought gay rights were a bad thing, you assumed that. (but i do!) And its not called stopping a baby from being born, its called murder, put a rubber on it or close your legs, either way don't kill a baby cause you are irresponsible.
As for being small minded, i have a master's degree in education that i obtained two years ago, before the age of 30 and i work EVERY DAY in the inner city helping out in a real way. Typical liberal bullcrap, you are more worried about what other countries think than what actually works. You are not for personal responsibility, that is the bottom line, you want the government to step in and take car of everyone! No communist state has EVER survived! they are all gone or in disrepair. your socialism is just prolonging this. go live in one of the european countries with their 15% unemployment rates. you are going to need to make some serious money to even match our 'poor' americans standard of living. OUR country has got more conservative over the last 50 years? hmmm dick van dyke could not even be shown on tv sleeping in the same bed as his wife back in the day and now they got women making out in prime time! Conservatism has advanced because liberalism is such an obvious failure!! USSR, Cuba, North Korea, even china has had to switch to a MARKET economy... you want to take us back to the stone age economically with PROVEN FAILING POLICIES... again i aske Mr. Liberal instead of insulting conservatives when you are wrong tell me WHAT IDEAS DO THE LIBS HAVE?????



ripper, in my modest opinion as a balanced and responsible mod, I can safely say that you sir, are an idiot.



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