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Forums - Sales Discussion - NPD: Analyst reaction (NPD not using Toys R US?)

Lingyis on 16 November 2007

oh, i just realized--NPD uses 60-65% of retailers, not 60-65% of all stores.

that's like, they get say only 40% of actual sellthrough (say Walmart accounts for 25%). if not less.

does ioi get data from stores, or retailers?



the Wii is an epidemic.

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Rath on 16 November 2007
ProfDallas said:

Lingys said:

"awww... throw us a bone, ioi! we are such faithful VGChartz'ers here"

 

Yes we are. This badmouthing of the NPD gets to me, because they are pretty big within the sales tracking business and if we piss them off, we may burn some bridges with them.

After this recent business of the NPD and their data being cut off, I suggested to ioi that he meet with them and see if he can pacify them. Mabey ioi could offer to advertise for the NPD or something but no, we have official moderators to talk smack to the NPD which is going to irritate them.


 Did you see the emails Riley sent to Ioi?

As long as that guy is in charge Im pretty sure NPD will not even look at cooperating with VGC.  



CrashMan on 16 November 2007
Nick said:
CrashMan said:
Toys R Us is a HUGE Wii market , and DS for that matter, as well which only magnifies the problem.

On the topic of Toys R Us and Wii, and off topic of this thread, I preordered SMG at Toys R Us, got the commemorative coin, AND they gave away 15 dollar gift cards on launch day to people who preordered it. Needless to say I was very pleased.

Are you sure?  I got a $25 gift card.  You might have gotten more than you realize. 


Yeah, it was a 25, just a mistype



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Cryoakira on 16 November 2007
shams said:

Well, this is all rather priceless.

1. Firstly - the issue of bundling. Once you don't count bundled software at all (explains poor performance of games like Nintendogs?), the entire equation changes. So much software sold these days is bundled. It also seriously disadvantages Sony & MS titles - as its primarily those titles that are bundled.

But its sort of fair - as there is NO extra revenue being handed over for those titles - which is one of the primary measures of overall performance.

In fact - if the industry is RELYING on bundled games to sell hardware - then that does have a significant impact on the bottom line. It also means less (other) software is purchased.

I think it is quite fair, and a good thing for NPD to do.

 


Yes, it's a good thing, and yet, VGC keep taking in account the "sales" of Wiisport or Wiiplay...

 



Vengi on 16 November 2007
DreamsCast said:
NPD have responded:

http://www.gamedaily.com/articles/news/npd-defends-integrity-of-its-video-game-data/18586/

"This month, NPD did not receive data from Toys R Us for the first time," Wilson said. "It appears that mass-market titles on the Wii, DS, and PS2 are underrepresented in the data."

Curious, GameDaily BIZ contacted The NPD Group to get the scoop on what happened to their data this month. Naturally the data trackers at NPD don't feel their results are underrepresenting any particular segment.

"In any given year, we typically add a few retailers and lose one or two," explained Martin Zagorsek, Vice President, Games & Software at The NPD Group. "This year both the adds (e.g. amazon.com) and the losses (Toys R Us) were a bit larger than usual, but overall our market coverage has not changed very much compared to last year."

He added, "Also, since the retailers we've added are actually increasing in importance and share, we feel that our data accuracy may improve rather than deteriorate due to these changes."

NPD's data is generally based on reporting from around 60 to 65 percent of retailers in the U.S., so the removal of one chain such as Toys R Us is not likely major so long as solid replacements (like Amazon) are added. As Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter says in his reports, "While we cannot be certain that the NPD games data is accurate, we believe that the data provides a relevant benchmark for tracking U.S. retail sell-through."

 

2 thoughts :

1) I love how Pacher talks about being accurate :)

2) It's interesting that he doesn't consider them anything more then a benchmark, which is what I consider VGchartz.

 

Dolla Dolla is going to be SOOO pleased that NDP uses Amazon



"..just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake"

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Rath on 16 November 2007
Cryoakira said:
 

Yes, it's a good thing, and yet, VGC keep taking in account the "sales" of Wiisport or Wiiplay...

 


 Wiisports, yea you can have a valid argument about that.

 

Wiiplay? Thats not a bundled game, if people didn't want the game they would pay $10 less and get the plain Wiimote. In essence they are buying Wiiplay for $10. 



Vengi on 16 November 2007
Rath said:
Cryoakira said:
 

Yes, it's a good thing, and yet, VGC keep taking in account the "sales" of Wiisport or Wiiplay...

 


 Wiisports, yea you can have a valid argument about that.

 

Wiiplay? Thats not a bundled game, if people didn't want the game they would pay $10 less and get the plain Wiimote. In essence they are buying Wiiplay for $10. 

 

Today in a second hand games shop I saw WiiPlay selling for £17 ($35) without a remote.  I laughed out loud in disbelief when I saw it. It's amazing how those places rip people off. 

 



"..just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake"

elprincipe on 16 November 2007
TheBigFatJ said:
 

Also, we're seeing a serious problem with gaming 'journalism'. We all have seen that most gaming journalists shouldn't bother calling themselves journalists, but rather amateur bloggers. Look at all of the "Sony says it sold 100k PS3s in one week" posts at places like Joystiq. If you even bother to look at the article they're linking, and then look at the source that article links to, the original source has a poorly worded sentence that suggests Sony is, as they say, including more than one playstation product in that number.


This is what I've been saying for a long time.  Gaming "journalism" standards are incredibly low, and you can see that reflected very well in the terrible state of video game magazines and horribly written articles on sites like GameSpot.  As someone in the journalism field myself, albeit in a different area, amateurish bullshit annoys me to no end.



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dtewi on 16 November 2007
Cryoakira said:

Yes, it's a good thing, and yet, VGC keep taking in account the "sales" of Wiisport or Wiiplay...

 


Not this again.......



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johnlucas on 17 November 2007

One statement: To HELL with the NPD!

Why?

Because I'm tired of this type of information being so kept undercover like its some Masonic/Stonecutters/Skull & Bones kind of deal.

I'm surprised at some posters here coming to the rescue of NPD against VGChartz. VGChartz can only get better with time if they continue doing what they do now. Even with far less resources available to derive info from VGChartz gets right in the area of where the market is with very little margin of error. Imagine if they got more info available to them. They would be even better.

I seriously don't understand the protest to ioi's decisions. NPD is a monopoly and it's time to bust these boys up or we'll always be at their mercy when it comes to understanding how the markets go. Music industry, TV industry, movie industry have figures wide open and public. The figures are open and free for gameplayers in Japan. There's no excuse for all this crap that NPD pulls.

I want to one day see VGChartz become THE name in videogame industry market tracking. Open to the public &  free to view. Somebody has to start somewhere.

Nobody has perfect mastery of where the market goes. Nobody...including NPD. They are ESTIMATES not EXACTS. If you don't fully trust the numbers here take numbers from all kinds of sources and see where the mean lies.

I just had to get that off my chest. I look at NPD as just another market tracker. They are not Moses with the Ten Commandments on slabs of stone.

John Lucas 



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