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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Should buyers of pre-owned titles be punished?

vlad321 said:
Fumanchu said:
That's ridiculous - so let me get this straight you want to form a quality watchdog regulator that consists of just you on the panel (who's opinion reigns supreme) to ensure that all games match the same quality of Starcraft 2 according to you, and all other games are what? Thrown into oblivion??

I don't know what irrefutable evidence there is to show that all music pirates contribute more to the music industry than legitimate purchasers.

I have no idea how many games I've purchased over the past 2 years suffice to say it's more than just a few. I do know that all the games I've bought have been new releases from retail though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

It's very irrefutable. Also I'm fairly sure developers know if their own game is of Starcraft 2 quality or not.


That article had a lot of maybe's and could be's and just one researcher's view on a topic only relating to 2000 people. Maybe they should have compared the amount of song's illegaly downloaded to the amount they bought? For the 1 album they downloaded legally, they could have 10 they downloaded illegaly.

Just to add, you may think Starcraft is a quality game, but I don't, people will agree and disagree with me, but it also means that your view of quality is based on your opinion. I could think a game is fantastic and you could think it suck's, which ever one of us is right is impossible to prove, because it's all an opinion.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

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All of my new game purchases for the past year have been funded at least partly by trading in games.
Currently I know if I buy a £40 game at release I will still be able to get £20 trade in for a few months, if I tire of it or know I wont play it again.

By limiting what I can trade it makes me think twice about getting games in the future.



Doobie_wop said:
vlad321 said:
Fumanchu said:
That's ridiculous - so let me get this straight you want to form a quality watchdog regulator that consists of just you on the panel (who's opinion reigns supreme) to ensure that all games match the same quality of Starcraft 2 according to you, and all other games are what? Thrown into oblivion??

I don't know what irrefutable evidence there is to show that all music pirates contribute more to the music industry than legitimate purchasers.

I have no idea how many games I've purchased over the past 2 years suffice to say it's more than just a few. I do know that all the games I've bought have been new releases from retail though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

It's very irrefutable. Also I'm fairly sure developers know if their own game is of Starcraft 2 quality or not.


That article had a lot of maybe's and could be's and just one researcher's view on a topic only relating to 2000 people. Maybe they should have compared the amount of song's illegaly downloaded to the amount they bought? For the 1 album they downloaded legally, they could have 10 they downloaded illegaly.

Just to add, you may think Starcraft is a quality game, but I don't, people will agree and disagree with me, but it also means that your view of quality is based on your opinion. I could think a game is fantastic and you could think it suck's, which ever one of us is right is impossible to prove, because it's all an opinion.

Here you go:

http://torrentfreak.com/pirates-are-the-music-industrys-most-valuable-customers-100122/

Note it's the IFPI, so I'm sure they did everything in their power to make pirates look worse, not better. You are also assuming that 1 download = 1 lost sale. SPin it whichever way you want, the pirates contribute more to the music industry than the non-pirates.

Also I'm sorry but you can always tell if a game is of SC2 quality or not. I'm not a fan of TF2 but I can sure as hell see that it's well worth $50 dollars (it's actually $30 when it came out, by itself). Meanwhile MW was $60 for barely any improvements, I'm sorry if TF2 was $30 then MW2 should have been just $20 or $15, simple as that.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

vlad321 said:
Fumanchu said:
That's ridiculous - so let me get this straight you want to form a quality watchdog regulator that consists of just you on the panel (who's opinion reigns supreme) to ensure that all games match the same quality of Starcraft 2 according to you, and all other games are what? Thrown into oblivion??

I don't know what irrefutable evidence there is to show that all music pirates contribute more to the music industry than legitimate purchasers.

I have no idea how many games I've purchased over the past 2 years suffice to say it's more than just a few. I do know that all the games I've bought have been new releases from retail though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

It's very irrefutable. Also I'm fairly sure developers know if their own game is of Starcraft 2 quality or not.

I've always found that study ridiculous. The real question is how much more those heavy illegal downloaders would buy if piracy weren't an option, or at least so easy to get away with. Just because they buy more than other people doesn't mean they are buying more than they used to.

Also, to say that it's okay to pirate because they buy stuff too is ridiculous. You might as well say it's okay to rob a bank so long as you donate to charity. It's still illegal, and there will never be a proper business model that can compete with free. Ever. It's not a lack of innovation, it's just not feasible. You will always have people who won't (or feel they can't) pay for things if they can get it free, regardless of a desire to support the artist/creator or not. And you'll also have the people that feel "well if other people can get it for free, why can't I?"

Don't get me wrong, even though I'm a musician myself, I think there are plenty of things wrong in the industry, mostly in regards to the labels. That still doesn't make piracy okay. And the way the government asks them and the movie industry to focus more on innovation is great and all, but it's almost like asking 14 year olds to solve a calculus problem. Yeah, maybe a few will get it, but overall, it will be impossible for most. The music + movie industry is essentially asked to become lucky, and somehow find a way to compete with free.

I just think it's reversed. I think that the industries should focus more on innovation, and the government should focus more on enforcing the law. Right now, it's the opposite.

In terms of gaming, buying second-hand and pirating are VERY different. As I said before, I just think there should be some kind of law (that protects both the industry and the consumer) that used games can't be sold until X(3-6 maybe) months after release. And maybe there should be some kind of commision sent to the publisher whenever a used game is sold. Neither will happen, but that's just my opinion.

 



r505Matt said:
vlad321 said:
Fumanchu said:
That's ridiculous - so let me get this straight you want to form a quality watchdog regulator that consists of just you on the panel (who's opinion reigns supreme) to ensure that all games match the same quality of Starcraft 2 according to you, and all other games are what? Thrown into oblivion??

I don't know what irrefutable evidence there is to show that all music pirates contribute more to the music industry than legitimate purchasers.

I have no idea how many games I've purchased over the past 2 years suffice to say it's more than just a few. I do know that all the games I've bought have been new releases from retail though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

It's very irrefutable. Also I'm fairly sure developers know if their own game is of Starcraft 2 quality or not.

I've always found that study ridiculous. The real question is how much more those heavy illegal downloaders would buy if piracy weren't an option, or at least so easy to get away with. Just because they buy more than other people doesn't mean they are buying more than they used to.

Also, to say that it's okay to pirate because they buy stuff too is ridiculous. You might as well say it's okay to rob a bank so long as you donate to charity. It's still illegal, and there will never be a proper business model that can compete with free. Ever. It's not a lack of innovation, it's just not feasible. You will always have people who won't (or feel they can't) pay for things if they can get it free, regardless of a desire to support the artist/creator or not. And you'll also have the people that feel "well if other people can get it for free, why can't I?"

Don't get me wrong, even though I'm a musician myself, I think there are plenty of things wrong in the industry, mostly in regards to the labels. That still doesn't make piracy okay. And the way the government asks them and the movie industry to focus more on innovation is great and all, but it's almost like asking 14 year olds to solve a calculus problem. Yeah, maybe a few will get it, but overall, it will be impossible for most. The music + movie industry is essentially asked to become lucky, and somehow find a way to compete with free.

I just think it's reversed. I think that the industries should focus more on innovation, and the government should focus more on enforcing the law. Right now, it's the opposite.

In terms of gaming, buying second-hand and pirating are VERY different. As I said before, I just think there should be some kind of law (that protects both the industry and the consumer) that used games can't be sold until X(3-6 maybe) months after release. And maybe there should be some kind of commision sent to the publisher whenever a used game is sold. Neither will happen, but that's just my opinion.

 

Or maybe they are just willing to buy more music because they either know that what they are buying is a quality product, or that they found a new artist that they wouldn't have if they didn't pirate.

As for used games and the piracy market, it's the exact same thing. In both cases the developer sees no money at all.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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vlad321 said:
r505Matt said:
vlad321 said:
Fumanchu said:
That's ridiculous - so let me get this straight you want to form a quality watchdog regulator that consists of just you on the panel (who's opinion reigns supreme) to ensure that all games match the same quality of Starcraft 2 according to you, and all other games are what? Thrown into oblivion??

I don't know what irrefutable evidence there is to show that all music pirates contribute more to the music industry than legitimate purchasers.

I have no idea how many games I've purchased over the past 2 years suffice to say it's more than just a few. I do know that all the games I've bought have been new releases from retail though.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/apr/21/study-finds-pirates-buy-more-music

It's very irrefutable. Also I'm fairly sure developers know if their own game is of Starcraft 2 quality or not.

I've always found that study ridiculous. The real question is how much more those heavy illegal downloaders would buy if piracy weren't an option, or at least so easy to get away with. Just because they buy more than other people doesn't mean they are buying more than they used to.

Also, to say that it's okay to pirate because they buy stuff too is ridiculous. You might as well say it's okay to rob a bank so long as you donate to charity. It's still illegal, and there will never be a proper business model that can compete with free. Ever. It's not a lack of innovation, it's just not feasible. You will always have people who won't (or feel they can't) pay for things if they can get it free, regardless of a desire to support the artist/creator or not. And you'll also have the people that feel "well if other people can get it for free, why can't I?"

Don't get me wrong, even though I'm a musician myself, I think there are plenty of things wrong in the industry, mostly in regards to the labels. That still doesn't make piracy okay. And the way the government asks them and the movie industry to focus more on innovation is great and all, but it's almost like asking 14 year olds to solve a calculus problem. Yeah, maybe a few will get it, but overall, it will be impossible for most. The music + movie industry is essentially asked to become lucky, and somehow find a way to compete with free.

I just think it's reversed. I think that the industries should focus more on innovation, and the government should focus more on enforcing the law. Right now, it's the opposite.

In terms of gaming, buying second-hand and pirating are VERY different. As I said before, I just think there should be some kind of law (that protects both the industry and the consumer) that used games can't be sold until X(3-6 maybe) months after release. And maybe there should be some kind of commision sent to the publisher whenever a used game is sold. Neither will happen, but that's just my opinion.

 

Or maybe they are just willing to buy more music because they either know that what they are buying is a quality product, or that they found a new artist that they wouldn't have if they didn't pirate.

As for used games and the piracy market, it's the exact same thing. In both cases the developer sees no money at all.

They are not the same exact thing. That's like saying mugging someone for $100 and finding a $100 bill are the same since, in the end, you are up $100. Piracy is illegal, buying a used game is not. That's a pretty big difference.

There are plenty of ways to sample music without pirating music. So, in that case, you could easily and legally find out if you are buying a quality product, but the second point I understand. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people who find new artists through piracy, like said artists, and don't buy their music.

The music and movie industries are dwindling. Sure, revenues are higher than 10 years ago, but profits are significantly down. As profits go lower, labels are less willing to 'experiment' with new artists. The industry will never die though, but it'll get harder and harder for new groups to get recognized easily. Then again, it's not like it was easier pre-internet.

In the end, the great groups will be fine, but the one's on the borderline will have it a little harder.

There are some things you can judge by the end, as in the ends justify the means. Piracy almost never fits into that though.