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Forums - Sales Discussion - Filesharing/Downloading Not wrong, just illegal in some places

haxxiy said:
Munkeh111 said:

But the problem is, where piracy is bad, it damages what paying customers can actually get. And if people stopped pirating games, then maybe prices might come down for everyone, as with a larger market, there are more potential customers, and a cheaper price can help people, who used to get games for free, also get involved. That, however, is unlikely, as even at this price, many publishers aren't making money

No, prices won't go down. When there is demand there is prices climbing and it always has been like that. Otherwise inflation would not exist. If your demand is low then you lower prices and see what's going to happen, even if it means taking risks of ending up in the red. Ever heard about a man called Sam Walton? Game software industry is lacking someone like him.

I did dismiss it as unlikely



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leo-j said:
Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, PIRACY is bad period. If everyone pirated, there would be no gaming.

 

Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, WALKING is bad period. If everyone walked, there would be no cars.



another reason why Canada is awesome!



impur1ty said:
leo-j said:
Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, PIRACY is bad period. If everyone pirated, there would be no gaming.

 

Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, WALKING is bad period. If everyone walked, there would be no cars.


this argument doesnt make any sense.  by walking you are getting  a vastly inferior experiance.

 

 

walking /= pirating

walking = doing wthout the game or music

pirating= making lots of copies of a car and giving them away for free.



 nintendo fanboy, but the good kind

proud soldier of nintopia

 

woopah said:
impur1ty said:
leo-j said:
Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, PIRACY is bad period. If everyone pirated, there would be no gaming.

 

Oh please, stop trying to make up excuses, WALKING is bad period. If everyone walked, there would be no cars.


this argument doesnt make any sense.  by walking you are getting  a vastly inferior experiance.

 

 

walking /= pirating

walking = doing wthout the game or music

pirating= making lots of copies of a car and giving them away for free.

 

The point was different things suit different people. When people want the packaging, online support, support developer, they'll go legitimate, when people want a sample, free game, instant digital copy, before release, no DRM, etc. they'll get the pirated version.

 

Both will co-exist, and always have done, and what's that? The video game market is actually growing?



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Munkeh111 said:
vaio said:
Munkeh111 said:

 

Yes I would buy more games but that would be the games I had to return because I didnt like them or they gave no value and I would loose a ton of money selling them back wich in turn would cause me to not afford the games I can afford to buy now because I know allready know before I buy them if I will keep them or not. So downloadin is the best consumer tool you could have if it is used properly as you save money on not buying crap you would have to sell back and spend the same money on games you know you will keep and thus afford more games that you want and keep.

So you would have to buy fewer games.. There are demos and reviews to help you decide which games to make. I agree that it is a good way for you to try the game, but as I am saying it creates a culture of saying it is okay to download stuff illegally

Yes that is what is happening to some extent but I am very confident that those same users will someday start supporting the industry, not all people are greedy bastards and most of us grow up from the phase i fell entitled.

I don't feel the same confidence. If you make your children realise that it is like stealing, and that they can be punished, then that the idea that it is fine never exists, and so they don't have to grow out of it.

Also if there werent downloading/renting/lending alot of consumers that would never buy or try the same games would never know if they liked the franchise and thus never become fans of the same franchises.

I think the later point is more important to try and preserve for the industry then trying to alienate the long time gaming fans like us that support the industry tons more then the average gamer.

There are upsides and downsides to both scenarios and I think the upside outwieghs the dowside also the people that wont buy games no mutter what will still lend or rent their games and still not support the industry even if there wasnt ay downloading so chasing them is beyond futile.

So just leave those who won't support the industry, if they aren't going to put anything in, why should they get anything back?

Edit: I am off to play some games so i might not respond in a while but I while when i get back.

But the problem is, where piracy is bad, it damages what paying customers can actually get. And if people stopped pirating games, then maybe prices might come down for everyone, as with a larger market, there are more potential customers, and a cheaper price can help people, who used to get games for free, also get involved. That, however, is unlikely, as even at this price, many publishers aren't making money

I would still loose money even if i bought less games, demos are a good way but not that widely supported (over here at least).

No it doesnt create a culture that says it´s ok to only download ( I am not adressin the illegal part as that depends on where you are and here it isnt illegal to download and there isn´t yet a downloader ONLY that has been convicted not even in US). What it does create is a generation that will learn to do the responsible thing by buying the games they like.

Well it isnt stealing so it´s hard to teach them that. You would teach them to use it the way I do and they will learn to grow up as responsible people unless you teach them that it is stealing and they end up downloading anyway.

Dont really understad your 3rd answer so I cant respond.

The last answer I leave unresponded as that is highly unlikely to ever happen.



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

Rainbird said:
vaio said:

Yes I would buy more games but that would be the games I had to return because I didnt like them or they gave no value and I would loose a ton of money selling them back wich in turn would cause me to not afford the games I can afford to buy now because I know allready know before I buy them if I will keep them or not. So downloadin is the best consumer tool you could have if it is used properly as you save money on not buying crap you would have to sell back and spend the same money on games you know you will keep and thus afford more games that you want and keep.

Honestly, I never pirate games, and I almost never return games. Just doing a some research can easily get you the right games, as the only games I have ever regretted buying were ones where I either a) didn't do my research or b) didn't follow my the results my research came up with.

I imagine someone who has been gaming for so much longer than me should be able to see whether a game is worth the asking price fairly easily.

Yes that is what is happening to some extent but I am very confident that those same users will someday start supporting the industry, not all people are greedy bastards and most of us grow up from the phase i fell entitled.

Possibly. Feels a bit like saying that everyone who borrows or rents games, will also start buying more games, something I don't think correlate.

Also if there werent downloading/renting/lending alot of consumers that would never buy or try the same games would never know if they liked the franchise and thus never become fans of the same franchises.

And what would stop them from downloading/renting/lending other games that the first game might have made them fans of? I agree that some people will go out and spend money on them, but what makes you think that it's anything that makes a difference? What stops them from doing the exact same thing again? And couldn't it be exactly the same people who might buy that type of game on a whim anyway?

I don't know the answer to any of that, I'm just questioning whether you know the answers.

I think the later point is more important to try and preserve for the industry then trying to alienate the long time gaming fans like us that support the industry tons more then the average gamer.

So how do you feel about Steam and PSN/XBLA/WW then?

Tonight gamesession is a perfect example: NMH2 was a game I was going to get and I did my research and was more convinced that it was a game I would enjoy, keep and give me value after trying it for about 30 min I now know I wont be buyin it at all it was so dissapointing, the only way I am playing that now is if someone I know gets the game and I have time to play it then maybe i will try and finish it just to get the full story since i loved the first one.

FF chrystal bearers: I was never going to get this game and again I did the researched and it just reinforced my beliefs but after trying it tonight I am going to buy it lovet the first 20 min and I am excited to get the game and  continue.

This happened tonight i tried those 2 games before I went on the play Fatal Frame 4, because i can download I now saved money from not buying NMH2 and selling it back due to my dissapointment and instead I found a new game I liked for the money I saved wich was FFCB a game I would never thought I would buy.

I never said everyone would start buying the games they borrowed or rented, just as not everybody downloadin is buying the games they download, what I am saying is there are a big portion of gamers that do buy the games they download,rent or borrow and that is what the gaming Industry should try a nurish that are the positives from downloading/renting/borrowing.

Nothing stops them from doing the same thing again, this is up to personal responsobility and even if you couldnt download a person that wouldnt buy the game he could download would instead rent it or borrow it if he couldnt download it so the industry is not missing out on any sale on this kind of people and thats the ones they are trying to chase down.

Dont have PS3 so I know nothing of PSN, havent used xbla at all so i cant comment I love Wiiware but I hate that i have to buy the same games again on VC as I allready have on NES,SNES,N64 those games I install without paying but the Wiiware ones I happily pay for the ones I like like World of goo, Helix, Wild west guns and soon bit trip beat I also bought pacman even though i have it on a bunch of different systems and even on my phone that game is a must on any electronic device and I will pay for it every single time.



Vaio - "Bury me at Milanello"      R.I.P AC Milan

In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird.
Now the world is weird  and people take Prozac  to make it normal.

If laughing is the best medicine and marijuana makes you laugh

Is marijuana the best medicine?

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

“If any creator has not played Mario, then they’re probably not a good creator. That’s something I can say with 100 percent confidence. Mario is, for game creators, the development bible.

It doesn't matter if piracy is good or bad for the industry. All that matters is that its their property and not yours. If they don't care about people pirating then fine. Its like how some bands allow people to stream their music on youtube and others constantly get their music removed.

The decision isn't your choice. Since you don't own the property. People that pirate occasionally and also purchase stuff just as much aren't the problem. But thinking that seeding a file to hundreds of thousands of people is moral is the height of arrogance.

Of course pirate if you want, no-ones going to stop you. But I'm sick and tired of people taking the moral high ground, why can't people just admit they're in the wrong? As I said its arrogance and self-importance. Good for you, you sent a file to a few thousand people, you haven't enriched the culture of the world by doing so. Your self importance is based on living vicariously through greater people.



@Article in the OP

Here is the basic flaw in that logic.

The large companies create the content. The entire purpose in creating content is in order to pay salaries and bonuses of those who worked to created or advance the company in some say. Thus, keeping people employed.

If, as the article suggest, no one paid for the content, then no one would be employed to create the content. Thus, paying for the content, ensures future content.

What the article is suggesting, is that most people should continue to pay for the content, but those who feel they don't want to pay for said content, shouldn't be required to. However, it certainly isn't fair that some people have to pay for the content when others do not, if we assume that no one really wants to pay for something they could get for free. The ones who don't pay are no more deserving of free content than those who do pay, and as we've mentioned, someone must pay for the content to be created at some point, unless people start working for free. The ones who don't pay have won no contest, and no one has chosen them to be the people who don't have the pay, they chose to do that themselves, and in doing so, they broke the law, cheated the company who created the content, and unfairly benefited from those unfortunates who must pay for content(because once again, someone MUST pay for the content or else it will not be created).

In my opinion, that is immoral, but that isn't a fact.

Morals are always relative to the person judging them.

That said, if the article is trying to paint the publishers and developers who create content, as rich money-grubbing corporations who are too greedy to give their games away for free, and if the article is trying to paint pirating as a noble revolution towards a great anarchist state, then the article is ignorant, plain and simple, and its arguments in that instance would amount to nothing more than an unconvincing justification for amoral and illegal actions committed against the industry that it proclaims to defend.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

I like to give the money to the people who made the game, music, movie, etc that I enjoyed. Nothing wrong with making money off your work, it is how it should be. It is just ............... to expect it all to be free and in the end perhaps lose one of your favorite companies.