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Forums - Sales Discussion - Filesharing/Downloading Not wrong, just illegal in some places

Munkeh111 on 21 February 2010
Alterego-X said:
Munkeh111 said:

But there is a very simple way to kill the idea that piracy is not bad. What if everyone stopped buying games and just pirated leaked copies? Then I am pretty sure the games industry would die, and I don't think anyone involved wants that

This is just a Straw Man argument,  you could do the same with anything else. 

Bicycles are bad because if everyone would exclusively travel by one, most people wouldn't ever arrive anywhere, plus they couldn't go across the ocean with one. 

Homosexuality is bad because if everyone would be gay humans would die out. 

Gaming is bad because if everyone would stop doing every other hobby to play games, people would have no real life. 

Cycling is only useful for short journeys

Homosexuality is actually a good thing because the world is overpopulated, and it is just a person's choice which doesn't harm others

The fact is, the idea is that piracy, is fundamentally not a bad thing, which I believe it is. It is saying it is okay not to pay for a product, because you could potentially borrow it from a friend instead... If you shouldn't have to pay, then why should other people?



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Munkeh111 on 21 February 2010
vaio said:
Munkeh111 said:
vaio said:
Munkeh111 said:
vaio said:

Another case of doule standards.

You are assuming that the same doesnt happend for downloaders which it does more then we actually know (that part is true as my whole gaming community and I have been doing this for 30 years with the Commodore 20&64, Nes, Snes, Atari and spectrum) and you also assume that every one that lends their games to friends get their friends to buy a copy wich is false. In both cases you will have people that wont buy the original in any case wether they borrow, download or rent it.

The whole thing about my friend buying another game was kind of a joke, but it is not double standards. The reason he bought the game was because I only gave him 3 days to play it, so he did not get to experience it properly. On the other hand, if he had downloaded he wouldn't have had to rush it. He didn't buy it to show his appriechiation to the developers, but because he wanted to enjoy it properly

PSP:

The psp´s main problem is not piracy it a part of the problem but it´s very small part, the Nes, Snes, Gamecube, Wii, PS1, PS 2, xbox, box 360, DS etc did just fine and in the case of the Wii, DS and 360 the piracy is bigger on those platforms (and you would know this if you had access to torrentsites) and they still do fine more then fine, the psp´s problem is and identity one as it might as well be a regular console it has not the games to set it apart from regular consoles and it´s heavily advertised as a portable media device wich many users are buying it for wich makes the portable gaming device part even less relevant even though it is supposed to be one.

The fact is, there are about 60m PSP owners out there, and a large reason why they are not buying the game is piracy. Admittedly, the fact that the games aren't as appealing might have some impact, as shown by the fact that the really big releases do sell quite well, but they would sell much better without piracy

But there is a very simple way to kill the idea that piracy is not bad. What if everyone stopped buying games and just pirated leaked copies? Then I am pretty sure the games industry would die, and I don't think anyone involved wants that

As I said every one in my gaming community over here do download and have been sharing illegal copies for 30 years yet none of us is not buying games in fact most of us are heavy buyers of games and are the most loyal customers the kind that the gaming industry cheerish (we are the 30+ game buyers per console).

But you would buy more games if you didn't use torrents wouldn't you?

I admit that not all are the same as us but the same goes for people renting or lending games from friends, I also think that the biggest part of downloading/renting/lending people that doesnt support the industry are the new generation that grew up with comcputers and feel entiteled to anything they can get their hands of without supportin anyone.

Yes, and ideas that it isn't wrong encourages a culture of just downloading whatever you want, and that is what is happening

 

Yes I would buy more games but that would be the games I had to return because I didnt like them or they gave no value and I would loose a ton of money selling them back wich in turn would cause me to not afford the games I can afford to buy now because I know allready know before I buy them if I will keep them or not. So downloadin is the best consumer tool you could have if it is used properly as you save money on not buying crap you would have to sell back and spend the same money on games you know you will keep and thus afford more games that you want and keep.

So you would have to buy fewer games.. There are demos and reviews to help you decide which games to make. I agree that it is a good way for you to try the game, but as I am saying it creates a culture of saying it is okay to download stuff illegally

Yes that is what is happening to some extent but I am very confident that those same users will someday start supporting the industry, not all people are greedy bastards and most of us grow up from the phase i fell entitled.

I don't feel the same confidence. If you make your children realise that it is like stealing, and that they can be punished, then that the idea that it is fine never exists, and so they don't have to grow out of it.

Also if there werent downloading/renting/lending alot of consumers that would never buy or try the same games would never know if they liked the franchise and thus never become fans of the same franchises.

I think the later point is more important to try and preserve for the industry then trying to alienate the long time gaming fans like us that support the industry tons more then the average gamer.

There are upsides and downsides to both scenarios and I think the upside outwieghs the dowside also the people that wont buy games no mutter what will still lend or rent their games and still not support the industry even if there wasnt ay downloading so chasing them is beyond futile.

So just leave those who won't support the industry, if they aren't going to put anything in, why should they get anything back?

Edit: I am off to play some games so i might not respond in a while but I while when i get back.

But the problem is, where piracy is bad, it damages what paying customers can actually get. And if people stopped pirating games, then maybe prices might come down for everyone, as with a larger market, there are more potential customers, and a cheaper price can help people, who used to get games for free, also get involved. That, however, is unlikely, as even at this price, many publishers aren't making money



Random Canadian on 21 February 2010

Can we stop the text walls?



Rainbird on 21 February 2010
vaio said:

Yes I would buy more games but that would be the games I had to return because I didnt like them or they gave no value and I would loose a ton of money selling them back wich in turn would cause me to not afford the games I can afford to buy now because I know allready know before I buy them if I will keep them or not. So downloadin is the best consumer tool you could have if it is used properly as you save money on not buying crap you would have to sell back and spend the same money on games you know you will keep and thus afford more games that you want and keep.

Honestly, I never pirate games, and I almost never return games. Just doing a some research can easily get you the right games, as the only games I have ever regretted buying were ones where I either a) didn't do my research or b) didn't follow my the results my research came up with.

I imagine someone who has been gaming for so much longer than me should be able to see whether a game is worth the asking price fairly easily.

Yes that is what is happening to some extent but I am very confident that those same users will someday start supporting the industry, not all people are greedy bastards and most of us grow up from the phase i fell entitled.

Possibly. Feels a bit like saying that everyone who borrows or rents games, will also start buying more games, something I don't think correlate.

Also if there werent downloading/renting/lending alot of consumers that would never buy or try the same games would never know if they liked the franchise and thus never become fans of the same franchises.

And what would stop them from downloading/renting/lending other games that the first game might have made them fans of? I agree that some people will go out and spend money on them, but what makes you think that it's anything that makes a difference? What stops them from doing the exact same thing again? And couldn't it be exactly the same people who might buy that type of game on a whim anyway?

I don't know the answer to any of that, I'm just questioning whether you know the answers.

I think the later point is more important to try and preserve for the industry then trying to alienate the long time gaming fans like us that support the industry tons more then the average gamer.

So how do you feel about Steam and PSN/XBLA/WW then?



Alterego-X on 21 February 2010
Munkeh111 said:
Alterego-X said:
Munkeh111 said:

But there is a very simple way to kill the idea that piracy is not bad. What if everyone stopped buying games and just pirated leaked copies? Then I am pretty sure the games industry would die, and I don't think anyone involved wants that

This is just a Straw Man argument,  you could do the same with anything else. 

Bicycles are bad because if everyone would exclusively travel by one, most people wouldn't ever arrive anywhere, plus they couldn't go across the ocean with one. 

Homosexuality is bad because if everyone would be gay humans would die out. 

Gaming is bad because if everyone would stop doing every other hobby to play games, people would have no real life. 

Cycling is only useful for short journeys

Homosexuality is actually a good thing because the world is overpopulated, and it is just a person's choice which doesn't harm others

The fact is, the idea is that piracy, is fundamentally not a bad thing, which I believe it is. It is saying it is okay not to pay for a product, because you could potentially borrow it from a friend instead... If you shouldn't have to pay, then why should other people?

My point was, that there is a difference between someone occasionally doing something, and everyone constantly doing it. 

Just because you showed an extremely exaggerated scenario and it wouldn't work, is no proof that a smaller scale version, using common sense and reasonability wouldn't work either. 

 

Just as their inability the cross the ocean won't make bicycles fundamentally bad and it doesn't prove that people shouldn't use them in the neighborhood,  similarly piracy's inability to be the sole source of products is not a proof that it shouldn't be casually used for downloading some stuff you are not that interested to pay for anyways. 



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NKAJ on 21 February 2010

Nice article but i dont agree.I think the problem is that some people will never go out and buy the cds but instead just horde songs on their computer.People should be able to sample music online,but not keep it.



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Munkeh111 on 21 February 2010
Alterego-X said:
Munkeh111 said:
Alterego-X said:
Munkeh111 said:

But there is a very simple way to kill the idea that piracy is not bad. What if everyone stopped buying games and just pirated leaked copies? Then I am pretty sure the games industry would die, and I don't think anyone involved wants that

This is just a Straw Man argument,  you could do the same with anything else. 

Bicycles are bad because if everyone would exclusively travel by one, most people wouldn't ever arrive anywhere, plus they couldn't go across the ocean with one. 

Homosexuality is bad because if everyone would be gay humans would die out. 

Gaming is bad because if everyone would stop doing every other hobby to play games, people would have no real life. 

Cycling is only useful for short journeys

Homosexuality is actually a good thing because the world is overpopulated, and it is just a person's choice which doesn't harm others

The fact is, the idea is that piracy, is fundamentally not a bad thing, which I believe it is. It is saying it is okay not to pay for a product, because you could potentially borrow it from a friend instead... If you shouldn't have to pay, then why should other people?

My point was, that there is a difference between someone occasionally doing something, and everyone constantly doing it. 

Just because you showed an extremely exaggerated scenario and it wouldn't work, is no proof that a smaller scale version, using common sense and reasonability wouldn't work either. 

Just as their inability the cross the ocean won't make bicycles fundamentally bad and it doesn't prove that people shouldn't use them in the neighborhood,  similarly piracy's inability to be the sole source of products is not a proof that it shouldn't be casually used for downloading some stuff you are not that interested to pay for anyways. 

But why is it occassionally okay to steal stuff? Because there is no distinction between be stealing 1 game and stealing another {apart from if that game was unavaliable through legal means, then I can see some distinction}, whereas there is a fundamental difference between suggesting that you take a bycycle everywhere, and suggesting you take it locally



STEKSTAV on 21 February 2010

Piracy would go down if a 6h experience didnt cost $60. Im looking at you Bioshock!

Most can agree that Bioshock is a great game and a game that you shouldnt miss out on. Its a GOTY and highly popular. But its a 4year development, $60 game that offers 6hrs of gametime, with little replay value. Worth it? Hell the fuck no. So people download it.

Piracy is all about money and easy access.



haxxiy on 21 February 2010
Munkeh111 said:

But the problem is, where piracy is bad, it damages what paying customers can actually get. And if people stopped pirating games, then maybe prices might come down for everyone, as with a larger market, there are more potential customers, and a cheaper price can help people, who used to get games for free, also get involved. That, however, is unlikely, as even at this price, many publishers aren't making money

No, prices won't go down. When there is demand there is prices climbing and it always has been like that. Otherwise inflation would not exist. If your demand is low then you lower prices and see what's going to happen, even if it means taking risks of ending up in the red. Ever heard about a man called Sam Walton? Game software industry is lacking someone like him.



 

 

 

 

 

Hephaestos on 21 February 2010

copyright is outdated, it should exist only for commercial usage anymore.
that is once the music has been once on the radio or the movie on TV.... anyone could have recorded it.

for software, the issue is totally different as sales are the only source of income.



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