MontanaHatchet said: Slimebeast said: MontanaHatchet said: Slimebeast said: MontanaHatchet said: Slimebeast said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. It's not wrong to be against immigration. Can you please be more civilized and not equate my expressed views with "hate speech"? If you are positive towards mass immigration that's up to you. I hate it. Respect my opinion and use intelligent argumentation instead of shutting me up. I did use intelligent arguments, you've just failed to provide a rebuttal. And how could you be against immigration? Birth rates are so low in Sweden that if you guys don't allow immigration, your country will collapse. But I'm sure you know that, right? That's not a serious method to open up for discussion, throwing out ungrounded accusements like that. But okay. You think it's okay that the consequences of mass immigration is, for example, that Jews, perfectly fine citizens, have to leave their homes or even their country? Ahh, but it's just like white flight, no biggie. The birth rate comment doesn't need a rebuttal because it's so ridiculous and false. Basically it's the same as saying that Japan actually will collapse (for anyone who might not know, Japan has a zero immigration policy and very low birth rates). No, it's because I've seen you make comments like those before, and it's one of the reasons you have somewhat of a moderation history. Now while I don't approve of immigrants bullying perfectly innocent people who live in a nation, that doesn't mean you should deny immigrants completely. I'll give you an example. Let's say you have a city where there are 10,000 Muslims, 5,000 Jews, and 100,000 people of other religions (mostly Christian). Now, let's say that 1,000 of those Muslims go around and bully the Jewish residents. Would you really deny the other 9,000 Muslims the right to live there, and/or tell them to leave? Of course not. And that's what we're dealing with here. I'm just saying that there have been similar things that have happened in the United States, and that people who were afraid or persecuted moved to other areas (usually suburban). There are still plenty of other regions in Sweden that have very few immigrants, if that's what someone is looking for. And by the way, your Japan rebuttal made me laugh. You mean that the nation that's facing cripping economic and demographic problems, that's up to its eyeballs in debt, and is on the verge of collapse is the best example you could come up with? Besides, I'm not saying that the demographics are a problem now. Much of Europe still has a sizable working population that can support stable economies. But let's take Japan as an example again. By 2050, 1/3 people in Japan will be 65 years or older. How do you think they'll sustain their country with such a population? The answer is that they won't. Same with much of Europe, including Sweden. Whether you like it or not, your country and many others need immigration for various regions. How you deal with the consequences of failure in integration is entirely up to your politicians (who are doing SUCH A GOOD JOB). Of course yes. I like your example because it's a core thing of the immigration issue. Simply since we can't separate the wheat from the chaff (is that the right saying?), we actually, unfortunately, have to deny entry to the 9,000 innocent people if the 1,000 do too much damage. Japan has a stagnating economy, but they're doing just fine. I believe they have a bright future with their current policies. The need of immigration is a big myth used for strategic & political reasons, although immigration can be very beneficial under the right circumstances and conditions. Okay, it sounds like you're tip-toeing around the issue here a good bit. Let me give you another example, one very applicable to the United States (a country I believe you like). So here in the U.S., the Italian Mafia used to be a huge part of our criminal underworld. It was composed of the millions of Italian immigrants that came to our country, primarily through New York City. Today, the biggest gang in this country (to my knowledge) is MS-13, a gang composed primarily of people from countries in Latin America, such as El Salvador. Now, should we kick out every Latin American in this country because of the actions of this small minority of people? Should we have done that for Italians? And what should we do (or should have done) about the millions of people from that group already living in the country? Just kick them out? Kick out thousands, even millions of people because of a minority of people? Do you really think it's that simple?  And no, Japan is not doing fine. They're doing horribly right now, and their future looks to be much, much worse (if that's even possible). I hope they improve (since it's an amazing country for many reasons), but I don't see how they can improve their fortunes too much besides immigration.

As I said in my former post, no kicking out of people unless they're illegal immigrants. Im talking about design and principles for current and future immigration.

Now USA is a very unique thing because it's explicitly based on immigration. It's the huge success story of immigration. I would still say that at any time, the current population in the country should be allowed to decide if they want to keep being an immigration based country or if they want to stabilize. In the case of Italians, I'd say it wasn't too much of a problem (the Mafia thing is over-blown due to romanticization). About the current situation, if I was an American I would restrict current immigration. Not stop it, restrict it.

Now there's a very important thing you do have to understand: (in my opinion) countries differ incredibly in how able they are to accept immigrants, integrate and interact with them. USA is probably the best nation in the world at this process in my opinion - the US policy is basically "we don't care what your name or color or religion is, or what your special interests or needs are, just behave yourself and you are welcome to be part of this nation". And I like that attitude.

While in Sweden the mentality is so different and the conditions are different. I don't have time to go into at the moment, but simplified, in my opinion we Swedes are too damn soft, and we adapt too much to immigration in an unnatural way, causing lots of weird problems.

kowenicki said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. half right. Main land Europe is on the whole a racist place, particularly northern, southern and easten europe... spain has a major problem with racism, evidenced at football matches and the grand prix for instance.  Much of it is quite under populated and could do with some immigrtation. The UK is very different, immigration had been a huge part of its history for centuries.  Cities such as Bradford and Leicester have an asian majority for instance.  The UK is also different in that it is pretty much full.  Socially and logistically it is hard for the Uk to take much more.

hah reminds me of the racist add the spanish did for their last olympics squad where they made fun of asians. Yeah, mainland europe can kinda be scary racism wise. It's always funny how they call the US "far rightwing" when some very rightwing negative issues like racism are far worse in the more "liberal" nations.

the only reason for mass immigration is because people cant be arsed having kids anymore.

Since when did the Nazis take over Sweden again? The evicted should come to the US where they would be welcome. This is pure BS.

halogamer1989 said: Since when did the Nazis take over Sweden again? The evicted should come to the US where they would be welcome. This is pure BS.

Sweeden in general has been a fairly racist place. It's the old abusive family role taken to a higher level. Dad beats the kid who then beats the dog. The Mainline population is racist against the muslims, so the muslims take out their frustration on the jews. Not that it's the only reason those two groups disagree but imagine it's exasperating it.

Kasz216 said: kowenicki said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. half right. Main land Europe is on the whole a racist place, particularly northern, southern and easten europe... spain has a major problem with racism, evidenced at football matches and the grand prix for instance.  Much of it is quite under populated and could do with some immigrtation. The UK is very different, immigration had been a huge part of its history for centuries.  Cities such as Bradford and Leicester have an asian majority for instance.  The UK is also different in that it is pretty much full.  Socially and logistically it is hard for the Uk to take much more. hah reminds me of the racist add the spanish did for their last olympics squad where they made fun of asians. Yeah, mainland europe can kinda be scary racism wise. It's always funny how they call the US "far rightwing" when some very rightwing negative issues like racism are far worse in the more "liberal" nations.

 

I actually searched for that ad, do you mean this?

I can see that some people might be offended, but I actually don't see that as making fun of asians. It may be a bit naive to do that ad, but I think it's not meant as an insult at all.

 

NJ5 said: Kasz216 said: kowenicki said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. half right. Main land Europe is on the whole a racist place, particularly northern, southern and easten europe... spain has a major problem with racism, evidenced at football matches and the grand prix for instance.  Much of it is quite under populated and could do with some immigrtation. The UK is very different, immigration had been a huge part of its history for centuries.  Cities such as Bradford and Leicester have an asian majority for instance.  The UK is also different in that it is pretty much full.  Socially and logistically it is hard for the Uk to take much more. hah reminds me of the racist add the spanish did for their last olympics squad where they made fun of asians. Yeah, mainland europe can kinda be scary racism wise. It's always funny how they call the US "far rightwing" when some very rightwing negative issues like racism are far worse in the more "liberal" nations.   I actually searched for that ad, do you mean this? I can see that some people might be offended, but I actually don't see that as making fun of asians. It may be a bit naive to do that ad, but I think it's not meant as an insult at all.

Whether they meant to be racist or not doesn't really effect if the act was racist. Most people who are racist actually do so out of ignorance someone who says black people are predisposed to crime actually believe it as well. A general national ignroance to racial gestures in of itself is a warning sign of racism... if you can't not be racist when your trying to be 'civil' what does that say when what you say and think aren't going to cause an international incident and maybe cost you a very lucrative deal.

Kasz216 said: NJ5 said: Kasz216 said: kowenicki said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. half right. Main land Europe is on the whole a racist place, particularly northern, southern and easten europe... spain has a major problem with racism, evidenced at football matches and the grand prix for instance.  Much of it is quite under populated and could do with some immigrtation. The UK is very different, immigration had been a huge part of its history for centuries.  Cities such as Bradford and Leicester have an asian majority for instance.  The UK is also different in that it is pretty much full.  Socially and logistically it is hard for the Uk to take much more. hah reminds me of the racist add the spanish did for their last olympics squad where they made fun of asians. Yeah, mainland europe can kinda be scary racism wise. It's always funny how they call the US "far rightwing" when some very rightwing negative issues like racism are far worse in the more "liberal" nations.   I actually searched for that ad, do you mean this? I can see that some people might be offended, but I actually don't see that as making fun of asians. It may be a bit naive to do that ad, but I think it's not meant as an insult at all.   Whether they meant to be racist or not doesn't really effect if the act was racist. Most people who are racist actually do so out of ignorance someone who says black people are predisposed to crime actually believe it as well. A general national ignroance to racial gestures in of itself is a warning sign of racism... if you can't not be racist when your trying to be 'civil' what does that say when what you say and think aren't going to cause an international incident and maybe cost you a very lucrative deal.

 

Well to be blunt here, I think Americans are too politically correct, so you seeing this as racist doesn't surprise me.

I asked my Chinese girlfriend just now (who is reading while I write this post) if she thinks it's racist, she says she doesn't think so.

 

NJ5 said: Kasz216 said: NJ5 said: Kasz216 said: kowenicki said: MontanaHatchet said: This isn't a Swedish problem so much as a European problem. Europe has gone for so long without any form of immigration or racial and ethnic mixing. Now that you have people coming in from the Middle East, Africa, and South-East Asia (who are primarily Muslim), you have serious problems with integration. And I'm not worried. A similar thing has happened countless times in the United States, with "white flight" (white people leaving a major city or area after it became "too black."). And Slimebeast, what the hell man? You've shown this kind of racism and intolerance before, stop it. You're like the Europeans on Youtube that put up hate speech videos and blame all of Europe's problems on immigration. Now hopefully I didn't offend anyone either. half right. Main land Europe is on the whole a racist place, particularly northern, southern and easten europe... spain has a major problem with racism, evidenced at football matches and the grand prix for instance.  Much of it is quite under populated and could do with some immigrtation. The UK is very different, immigration had been a huge part of its history for centuries.  Cities such as Bradford and Leicester have an asian majority for instance.  The UK is also different in that it is pretty much full.  Socially and logistically it is hard for the Uk to take much more. hah reminds me of the racist add the spanish did for their last olympics squad where they made fun of asians. Yeah, mainland europe can kinda be scary racism wise. It's always funny how they call the US "far rightwing" when some very rightwing negative issues like racism are far worse in the more "liberal" nations.   I actually searched for that ad, do you mean this? I can see that some people might be offended, but I actually don't see that as making fun of asians. It may be a bit naive to do that ad, but I think it's not meant as an insult at all.   Whether they meant to be racist or not doesn't really effect if the act was racist. Most people who are racist actually do so out of ignorance someone who says black people are predisposed to crime actually believe it as well. A general national ignroance to racial gestures in of itself is a warning sign of racism... if you can't not be racist when your trying to be 'civil' what does that say when what you say and think aren't going to cause an international incident and maybe cost you a very lucrative deal.   Well to be blunt here, I think Americans are too politically correct, so you seeing this as racist doesn't surprise me. I asked my Chinese girlfriend just now (who is reading while I write this post) if she thinks it's racist, she says she doesn't think so.

no offense as well, but the majority of chienese didn't seem to agree with her consdiering the reactions spain got.

Kasz216 said: no offense as well, but the majority of chienese didn't seem to agree with her consdiering the reactions spain got.

The way I see it, racism implies discrimination or the view that a certain race is superior. So the example you gave where people comment on black being thieves is definitely racism, as you're attributing a negative trait to a race.

Acknowledging physical differences as insignificant as the eye shape and commenting on them may be childish, naive and careless ("they look stupid" as my girlfriend said) but calling it racist is going too far IMHO.

For example, here is another controversial ad which is definitely racist:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/06/sony-under-fire-for-racist-advertising/

Here you can see an implication of superiority, or at least an aggressive tone from one race to another.