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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Capcom laments DVD capacity - Lost Planet 2 compromised

joeorc on 19 February 2010
johnsobas said:
joeorc said:
johnsobas said:
joeorc said:
johnsobas said:
yea if 360 went HDDVD they would be way way behind in market share and would have lost way more money. Not exactly win/win. The only people that it helps is Sony.

see that's the big problem, you say lost market share, an would have lost way more money would be a non win win, let's just examin that

one the xbox360 released before the PS3, so if HD DVD was installed right from the get go inside the xbox360 there would have been a jump start for Toshiba to have a much stronger relation, and more leverage to the movie production companies to go with HD DVD instead of Blu-Ray because a year's head start would have granted HD DVD more sales installbase. the same way it also helped the Blu-Ray format because of the PS3 being released right off the bat even though in 2003 Blu-Ray was first released to the consumer in Asia it was not released to everyone and was mainly for recording instead of used as a movie playback format until the Blu-Ray founder's decided one the spec's in 2004 for movie standard's for HD optical disc distribution. back than Blu-Ray was the favored format but If Microsoft would have gone with HD DVD for one Microsoft's IHD control scheme would be the main software for HD TOPSET BOXES instead of BD-java that Blu-ray player's and recorder's use.

than

Not only that but many of the developer's game's designed would have less of a problem with storage issue's for their project's IF HD DVD was used from the get go

this just boil's down too Microsoft knew there would be some risk both way's , though HD DVD would have been a much more of a risk, just like it was for Blu-Ray with more of an upfront cost for the unit but over time it prob. would have been a better over all choice even if Microsoft and Toshiba did not come out on top with HD DVD it still would have been an over all better solution in the long run over time than HD DVD for optical disc distribution cost's to developer's.

That doesn't solve the market share issue, 360 would have been stomped if they released with HD DVD.  They would have been forced into a $600 launch price like the PS3 and a 2005 launch would have been impossible.  That is a recipe for epic fail.  Sony is the one who should have not put blu-ray in PS3, then we wouldn't even be talking about this, PS3 could have launched at $400 quite possibly making a profit from the start, and market share would have been much higher.

Instead we are arguing about tiny things like putting things on DLC instead of on the disc, and lower resolution FMVs and compressed sound.  That's really not worth the trouble. 

epic fail is not what i would call over 29+ million system's sold in under 4 year's a failure when this generation is pretty much just getting started.

see that's also kind of short sighted, To view it as such, would you call the xbox which sold 25 million in 4 years a failure? think about this since the xbox360 has been released the xbox360 in 5 year's has roughfly 37+ million system's world wide that mean's it grew it's install base by

that means 3 million install base was added per year to the xbox brand over its origional 25million xboxuser's since the brand was first started so in almostt 5 year's not they only grew by 12 million would you acall that a fail? I would not but some would.

I see many people seem to somehow think Sony expected to sell the PS3 at $500.00 and $600.00 to expect to be the market leader? There is no way they would have expected that , that's like saying car dealer's of the LINCON would expect it to sell more and faster than the town car! there is no way in hell that would happen

an there is no way in Hell in my Opinion that Sony did not know this.

In my opinion

this generation is more of a dynamic stable market that market share only inflates a false sense of we are number one "right now" but what happen's in 4 year's, 5 year's after you release the system.?

take this as an example:

when the new system's get released what happen's to your sale's of your current system?

in previous generation's there was more of a drive for an upgrad to the hardware sooner rather than later unless your in the number 1 spot., but on the same token there is more devices on the market than there was 5 year's ago all competing for your time as a gamer and your money. thus the market share will shrink per product, but not your over all market share. pointing out one product's market share is kind of pointless when your main product is expected to be on the shelf longer than 5 or 6 year's at a time. an this is not just one product when you have 3 or more it's going to already reduce each product's market share just with number of product's you have not even taking into account other product's.

that's why they have their business plan in place and it's more than a couple year's apart for console's since you know it's going to take more time to put out new system's

to think otherwise is pretty much going back and making changes to your plan more time's over.

this Generation has many thing's outside of the game's console's market that is directly effecting it and how that market is going forward.

example:

HD alot of people see, well there is few set's being sold of 1080p back in 2007 one of the many statement's blu-ray and HD DVD are not needed, but with the switch from Analog broadcast over to digital, there need's to be IF you want HD recording and HD playback to take advantage of HD broadcasting you need these new HD TV set's and HD upconversion DVD and or HD Optical disc playback. That is IF YOU WANT HD.

but if you notice even the main new's on regular TV is broadcast in HD now, the new studio's added extra function's for HD TV's to take advantage of more an more HD tv's are being produced and at a much cheaper cost.

Right now both The xbox360 and Playstation 3 are HD enabled system's but 3 to 4 year's from now how will each system hold up to their new counterpart's?

would the majority of current user's from each system's install base support the new system over the current?

what would make gamer's go out an buy the next upgraded box right away instead of waiting? would the next system so muchso overshadow the current system's that the current system sale's would dry up so fast there would be no room on the shelf for it?

UNlike previous generation's these systems today have the hardware and infrastructure to last much longer and be more of a viable solution on the shelf far longer than any previous generation of game console's. thus

saying FAIL this early in the console cycle is kind of premature to say the least

 


please read my post and try again.  That isn't even a response to my post.

um yes it is how is it not a response to your post

"johnsobas said:
yea if 360 went HDDVD they would be way way behind in market share and would have lost way more money. Not exactly win/win. The only people that it helps is Sony."

than you added:

That doesn't solve the market share issue, 360 would have been stomped if they released with HD DVD.  They would have been forced into a $600 launch price like the PS3 and a 2005 launch would have been impossible.  That is a recipe for epic fail.  Sony is the one who should have not put blu-ray in PS3, then we wouldn't even be talking about this, PS3 could have launched at $400 quite possibly making a profit from the start, and market share would have been much higher.

Instead we are arguing about tiny things like putting things on DLC instead of on the disc, and lower resolution FMVs and compressed sound.  That's really not worth the trouble.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

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joeorc on 19 February 2010
ZenfoldorVGI said:
I kind of don't buy this. I mean, sure, I'm sure tons of games have had to cut content due to DVD size, but how much was cut is questionable in this case, along with the "but you can buy it as DLC" bullcrap.

Fact: Some companies are purposefully removing content so they can charge for it as DLC, and that has nothing to do with DVD size.

no argument there, but on the same token some are offering more content :

just look at Fallout 3 Game of the year ed. for the ps3 and the xbox360 was the extra content worth it?

I think it was. but that is the main point not all the companies are doing that an I think the more we go forward that would remain going forwad by a developer/publisher per developer/publisher basis already you can see which are doing what you describe and one's that are not so much doing that!

would there be more of the publisher's/developer's that would do that going forward, I think that would depend on the companies themselves.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

joeorc on 19 February 2010
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:
^^ How would Microsoft have been better off exactly? It would have cost a lot more and they would have lost a lot more money. Not exactly a genuine win/win scenario.

for one the cost of an internal HD DVD drive is cheaper than an external, the other factor would be plenty of space 15 GB/layer and also the HD DVD drive is a CLV. the cost increase would be more for the xbox360 but over time like Blu-ray for game Asset's for developer's it would have been better. aside from the movie HD war, An HD DVD not getting top billing it's a d@mn fine format Esp. for data storeage.

and since a single layer HD DVD is 15 GB/single layer  the developer's publusher's would not have to pay a premium for multiple disc distribution.

Disadvantages being of course cost, and only a single supplier which is what got them into trouble the first time around, they would say no thank you to that.

I have not seen anything which really shows that games are struggling for space as a major bottleneck behind such things as memory, bandwidth, shader power, texture power. They would of course have been better off improving a performance bottleneck before tackling something which may/may not be a problem in the latter half of the generation.

well NEC was also able to produce the HD DVD format in 2005  until this happened but I think this was the thing that did it more than anything to convince Microsoft not to take the Risk: there was some talk about this as a rumor in late 2005 early 2006

guess what happened in 2006?

Sony Optiarc Inc. 

The company was established on April 3, 2006 as a joint venture between Sony and NEC corperation, each had share of 55% and 45% respectively.

On September 11, 2008,

it was announced that Sony will take over NEC's 45% share, making Optiarc wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony

This took effect on December 5, 2008.

but like i said before its more of a cost logistic's for developer's outside of Microsoft, than for Microsoft but since Microsoft does rely more on 3rd party over their own 1st party studios for game's that may be why it may have an effect over time more now that it was a couple year's ago.

one only has to look at Carmack, rockstar's comment's and you can see some developer's are not beating arround the bush about this limitation of DVD, sure they are not every developer but they are respected in the industry good or bad people do tend to listen on their opinion's.

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

WilliamWatts on 19 February 2010
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 



joeorc on 19 February 2010
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 

but on the very same token say in 4 year's how would not having a HD DVD 15 disc not help the current XBOX360 for game's?

it only helps keep the xbox360 more of a viable choice instead of the upgrade. that i think is the bottom line of cost/not needed benefit of right now than later, yes it's not great upfront but later the format becomes cheaper and only become's more of a Asset than a hinderance. just look at how many system's the xbox360 sell per year

think 10 muillion system sold per year is not worth the production for Toshiba to not produce the optical drive for Microsoft even when as time goes by it would be much cheaper to do so for Toshib and Microsoft both.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft dis put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network
johnsobas on 19 February 2010
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 

but on the very same token say in 4 year's how would not having a HD DVD 15 disc not help the current XBOX360 for game's?

it only helps keep the xbox360 more of a viable choice instead of the upgrade. that i think is the bottom line of cost/not needed benefit of right now than later, yes it's not great upfront but later the format becomes cheaper and only become's more of a Asset than a hinderance. just look at how many system's the xbox360 sell per year

think 10 muillion system sold per year is not worth the production for Toshiba to not produce the optical drive for Microsoft even when as time goes by it would be much cheaper to do so for Toshib and Microsoft both.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft dis put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

 

that's just wrong, what determines life cycle is not the format at all.  Games and market share determine the life cycle, market share being the most important thing.  Microsoft's success so far has been because of the 1 year headstart and the price advantage over the PS3.  If they put in a HD DVD drive all of that is gone.  The sales wouldn't suddenly pick up later in the gen, the PS3 would have dominated it from the start because with everything equal the PS3 is gonna win.  360's market share is what is killing the PS3, even though it is more powerful developers don't make use of it, making the extra power and disc space not an important factor at all.  If Sony wants developers to make use of it they have to dominate market share like with the PS2.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

joeorc on 19 February 2010
johnsobas said:
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 

but on the very same token say in 4 year's how would not having a HD DVD 15 disc not help the current XBOX360 for game's?

it only helps keep the xbox360 more of a viable choice instead of the upgrade. that i think is the bottom line of cost/not needed benefit of right now than later, yes it's not great upfront but later the format becomes cheaper and only become's more of a Asset than a hinderance. just look at how many system's the xbox360 sell per year

think 10 muillion system sold per year is not worth the production for Toshiba to not produce the optical drive for Microsoft even when as time goes by it would be much cheaper to do so for Toshib and Microsoft both.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft dis put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

 

that's just wrong, what determines life cycle is not the format at all.  Games and market share determine the life cycle, market share being the most important thing.  Microsoft's success so far has been because of the 1 year headstart and the price advantage over the PS3.  If they put in a HD DVD drive all of that is gone.  The sales wouldn't suddenly pick up later in the gen, the PS3 would have dominated it from the start because with everything equal the PS3 is gonna win.  360's market share is what is killing the PS3, even though it is more powerful developers don't make use of it, making the extra power and disc space not an important factor at all.  If Sony wants developers to make use of it they have to dominate market share like with the PS2.

I strongly disagree, I think you looking at it from a past perspective of the previous gen. instead of looking at from this perspective.

this is not the previous generation. there is a big problem i see with looking at it as such because of the changes in the way the game industry has headed.

for one unlike the previous generation this generation of system's are less static IE they are updatable through software adding function and better software performance.

also the viability of these system's are all online connected system's thus since they all have updated software that be downloaded.

I will ask this again:

HOW would have HD DVD been a Hinderance to the XBOX360 later if the xbox360 would benefit by being able to have an included function that only help's developer's not hinder them?

as for :

"The sales wouldn't suddenly pick up later in the gen, the PS3 would have dominated it from the start because with everything equal the PS3 is gonna win.  360's market share is what is killing the PS3, even though it is more powerful developers don't make use of it, making the extra power and disc space not an important factor at all.  If Sony wants developers to make use of it they have to dominate market share like with the PS2."

how would you know for sure?

By going with what you know right now what about 3 year's from now?

what happen's when the new playstation an xbox360 get's released?

I asked this before and Im' asking it again.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft did put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

that would indeed effect the xbox360  due to the fact that if this new xbox could play xbox360 game's would xboxfan's who already have an xbox360 buy the new system or stick with the xbox360?

unless you think the new xbox will use DVD or have no Optical drive at all?

we don not know for sure but I for one think that HD DVD would only help extending the xbox360's capability's since developer's like ID software's veryown Carmack, and rockstar game's developer's have both stated already DVD is putting some limitation's on their game's already.

already the xbox360 is at $199.00 say in 3 year's it get's to $100.00 the very same price as the PS2 is now do you think the sale's of the xbox360 would be weaker or stronger than the ps2 is right now in its now 10th year?

i think it would indeed be stronger due to the fact that by the time the xbox360 is at that price point many people "gamer's" esp. would view the xbox360 as a great system to buy due to the fact that the xbox360 will have more capabilities and more function's in it's 10 year's than the ps2 has in its 10 year's. the big problem which will have a big impact on the next generation of system's because since these system's are all upgradable with new software, flas storage, in some cases bigger harddrive's.

what would the new systems offer that would make you want to go out and buy the new system..the software right?

so what happen's if the new software for the xbox360 look's just as good as the new xbox system's game software for the first year or two?

as a matter of fact what happen's if they release the new software that can play on both system's because of development cost's may in of itself be

just as high today if not higher would 3rd party developer's choose to make the game playable on the xbox360 also to offset the cost's?

say for the first year or two of the new xbox system?

In my opinion all these thing's point toward the xbox360 and ps3 being on the shelf space longer and i think the main companies know this, only Nintendo may have some of that breathing room because does anyone realy think the next system that Nintedo will release would not be a HD system?

yes Nintendo may create a new version of the Wii like they did with the DS but odd's are it would be HD, since more consumer's have or are going to buy a HD tv set due to the fact that TV manuf. are stopping production on analog tv set's or have dropped production of them completely.

 

 

 




I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

WilliamWatts on 19 February 2010
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 

but on the very same token say in 4 year's how would not having a HD DVD 15 disc not help the current XBOX360 for game's?

it only helps keep the xbox360 more of a viable choice instead of the upgrade. that i think is the bottom line of cost/not needed benefit of right now than later, yes it's not great upfront but later the format becomes cheaper and only become's more of a Asset than a hinderance. just look at how many system's the xbox360 sell per year

think 10 muillion system sold per year is not worth the production for Toshiba to not produce the optical drive for Microsoft even when as time goes by it would be much cheaper to do so for Toshib and Microsoft both.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft dis put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

 

Its simply not worth it. $1B worth of HDDVD equipment doesn't really offset a marginal cost paid by publishers a couple of years down the track and certainly not for a marginal number of games which would stand to really benefit. However paying more money for say a better memory architecture, more ED-Ram etc would pay off from launch vs the PS3 and relative to itself on its own in a much better fashion. If more ED-Ram didn't meet their cost/benefit criteria then I doubt that an HD-DVD drive would and continue paying off better than HD-DVD or Blu Ray because every single game has a graphical interface but not every game requires more than 7GB of space.



johnsobas on 19 February 2010

how can you say putting in HD DVD is not a problem when it would have caused the system to be delayed by 1 year and increased the price by a minimum of $200.

How can you say that when 360 has completely depended on the price advantage and the 6 million it got from the head start over the PS3 the entire generation.

they wont' use HD DVD but they will use something like that, it is backwards compatible with DVD so i don't see the problem. More and more games will just be downloaded anyways. Gamers will upgrade because developers will move on to next gen hardware.



currently playing: Skyward Sword, Mario Sunshine, Xenoblade Chronicles X

joeorc on 19 February 2010
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:
WilliamWatts said:
joeorc said:

it's not so much as a problem it's more of a logistic's thing, one only has to look at statement's from Carmack and other's like Rockstar game's

Example:

"The PC is limitless in the amount of data you can put on it," said Willits. "The PS3 has about 25GB. But the Xbox 360 roughly has 6 to 8 GB of data. We're hoping we can squeeze the game down to two discs for the 360 version."

According to Willits, the game was supposed to feature several wastelands for the player to explore. Because of the limitations of the Xbox 360's media, they had to cut down the wastelands to only two, which are themselves split into multiple instances. These changes have been made across all versions of Rage, not just the 360 port.

"I wouldn't say the overall story was changed in any way in order to fit on the Xbox 360 version," Willits said, "but how the player experiences Rage's story has been altered." Unfortunately, that means the experience has been altered across all platforms. This is one of the first signs we've received of the 360's older DVD media showing its age, but we expect some fans won't be terribly pleased that it's affecting other versions of the game as well.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169963

think about this they did not even talk about the BD-50 they talked about both the xbox360's and the PS3's base storage for their optical disc's storage capacity

notice what i pointed out before its cheaper for a single layer BD-25 for developer's than it is for ( 2 ) DL-DVD 9's

not only is that single layer  HD DVD would have been cheaper to produce an distribute this game on they would not have to worry about the space issue v's cost's to distribute the multi-production on multiple disc's. it's just one more thing that add's to the cost than the limitation that game's most of the time are locked in at $60.00 for a new release, multiple disc's eat into those cost's moreso than a single layer HD DVD 15  or Single layer BD 25

 

Hypothetical improvement list:

  1. Reliable
  2. More ED-Ram
  3. More CPU cores
  4. More RAM
  5. More memory bandwidth
  6. Larger disc

So really even if we strike off initial reliability (PS3 sucks too) we've probably got about 4 objects higher on the list of things to improve before they get around to something which maybe helps 10% of games 4 years after release. The cost/benefit isn't there.

 

but on the very same token say in 4 year's how would not having a HD DVD 15 disc not help the current XBOX360 for game's?

it only helps keep the xbox360 more of a viable choice instead of the upgrade. that i think is the bottom line of cost/not needed benefit of right now than later, yes it's not great upfront but later the format becomes cheaper and only become's more of a Asset than a hinderance. just look at how many system's the xbox360 sell per year

think 10 muillion system sold per year is not worth the production for Toshiba to not produce the optical drive for Microsoft even when as time goes by it would be much cheaper to do so for Toshib and Microsoft both.

the only thing that hurt's the life of the xbox360 is if the next system come's out and the xbox360 fan base decide to forego supporting the xbox360 which do you think that would happen?

I do not but on the same token what kind of optical drive will the next xbox have? or will it even have an optical drive at all?

do you think Microsoft's next system will still be using DVD?

that's a big ? what if indeed Microsoft dis put HD DVD inside the new xbox would that gather more of a drive for xbox360 gamer's to move onto the new xbox over keeping their xbox360 esp. if the new XBOX can play xbox360 game's?

 

Its simply not worth it. $1B worth of HDDVD equipment doesn't really offset a marginal cost paid by publishers a couple of years down the track and certainly not for a marginal number of games which would stand to really benefit. However paying more money for say a better memory architecture, more ED-Ram etc would pay off from launch vs the PS3 and relative to itself on its own in a much better fashion. If more ED-Ram didn't meet their cost/benefit criteria then I doubt that an HD-DVD drive would and continue paying off better than HD-DVD or Blu Ray because every single game has a graphical interface but not every game requires more than 7GB of space.

but would that same HD DVD equipment cost 1B today if the HD DVD would have one the format war?

not to mention the IHD licence fee's that Microsoft would have made per ever HD TOPSET BOX.

like i sttated it was a risk.

and also yes you are right not every game would be required to need more than 7GB of space right now but say in 3 year's what then?

we do not know. my Q: still still stand's what would Microsoft put as its optical drive in the next Xbox it releases, would it still use DVD or would it go for HD DVD optical drive or no OPTICAL drive at all, and go all digital download and offer an external optical drive if you want to play xbox360 game's on the new  ver. of the xbox.

my point is would the xbox360 suffer loss of support when the next xbox come's out due to the next xbox having better overall hardware, what would seperate it mainly from the xbox360?

the longer this generation goes on the less likely the jump frm the previous generation to the current system's had a much bigger impact than I think will happen in the next generation system's get released. I Think the impact will no be as great due to thestrength of each system's support

have you ever seen a third place system get this much support as much as the ps3 has already attained already for a 3rd place console? let alone with

a) more system's on the market at one time vs' previous generation's all competing for you time as a gamer and your money.

b) when the systems are not even 5 year's old into the generation

remember the previous gen.

ps2 had a 300Mhz

xbox360 had a 766 Mhz

the game cube had  405 Mhz

today we have system's in the 3,2 Ghz, and with multiple core's

less static system because of the software can be tweaked.

that bery same thing that make's thes unit's better as time goe's on make's it one of the very reason's they would in all likelyhood remain on the shelf longer thus the longer the system keep's selling the cheaper it become's to manufacture , so how would the HD DVD 15 GB disc not benefit the xbox360 over time due to the cost's would be lower. unless you could not see the xbox360 notbeing able to sell more aystem's when the price goes to $99.00. what would the sale's of a $99.00 xbox360 compard to the sale's of a $99.00 PS2?



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.