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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Industry being stubborn

nordlead said:
routsounmanman said:
I'm really baffled with these companies. You must be really stupid and incompetent to insult the very same group you cater to.

Wii owners are not some alien race recently discovered; we're regular players, gamers, it's the publisher's / developer's job to MAKE us spend our money on their products.

Finally, if I were Nintendo, I'd put up a third party barrier of sorts (release quality title or go away). Third parties have done nothing to help the system, rather they make it look bad. They don't diversify the catalog THAT much, and they munch away sales from quality Nintendo products. Just go away, Wii're tired!

If Nintendo did this they would be right back where they were with the GC. Absolutely no games on the system. The reason the PS1 and PS2 got so popular (both with consumers and 3rd party devs) was because anyone could produce anything on the system. Nintendo right now has a similar quality control as the PS1/2/3 where so long as the game runs and doesn't explode, has all the right startup code, it is good to go.

While this allows crappy games, it also prevents 3rd party companies from feeling slighted and leaving the system. Heck, small and indie devs wouldn't put up with Wii and we wouldn't see titles like Little King's Story or other similar low budget games.

I don't mean them to block all third party software, just filter them, Yamauchi style. We'd have 1/100th of the current catalog, yet those few would be worth it, and they'd surely sell better than Madworld and Deadly Creatures. They'd make more money, see that the Wii can host core games, and be motivated to invest even more.

Maybe I'm being a bit absolute with this, yet I'm very tired of all their whinning. I bought The Conduit, Madworld, RE4, Dead Space and many others. I did my part and I keep hearing the same insulting crap. I say let them rot, Nintendo. You'll still be fine, and I'll still be able to play great third party games on my PS3.



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nordlead said:
Carl2291 said:

My opinion.

1. Why create the market on Wii, when they have a big enough market with PS360. If Nintendo really want the "hardcore" games, Nintendo will make the market themselves and stop advertising the Wii the way they do (Family all around, kids playing, everyone smiling and joyful). When Nintendo make "hardcore" games like Uncharted, Halo, God of War, Fable... The developers will follow suit, and likely gain big sales.

The reason Wii is lumped with all the "casual" trash, is solely because of how Nintendo have marketted the console.

2. Nintendo are always releasing remakes, and dozens of sequels. Yet you think they are the best Videogames company ever. Why don't you all complain to Nintendo for new stuff, instead of the 3rd parties? They are there to make money, and are doing the best way they can (casual games). Nintendo on the otherhand, have made mountains of cash, yet keep giving the same franchises. Why don't you hate on THEM for a change?

1) there already is a market, just the developers ignore it. CoD sells 1m units, yet it gets 2 year old ports? Day & Date with the same features and I can guarentee it will sell. Monster Hunter broke 1m in Japan, which is like the 2nd best 3rd party game in Japan behind FFXIII. The market already exists, developers just refuse to provide the Fables, Assassin's Creeds, CoDs, and Uncharteds. Heck, they could have made Assassin's Creed on all 3 systems (with a graphics hit to the Wii) and they would have doubled their potential customer base.

2) Nintendo doesn't push out 5 new IPs a gen only to let them die at the hands of various developers (Crash, Spyro, and I'm sure Sony has dropped more). I prefer it that way, so I'll gladly take Super Mario Bros 5. At least it isn't at 13 and counting

That's not the point though. People are asking for new games like they would see on the HD systems. Hardcore games that take advantage of Wii. The market exists, but it's not known if that market is big enough to support say, Assassin's Creed or something. Resident Evil is ofcourse a no brainer after how 4 did. With the market they already have on PS360, they probably find it pretty pointless trying to recreate that market on Wii.

I'm not saying Ninty shouldn't keep making Mario games or anything like that, i'm saying they should be coming up with new franchises aswell to show the 3rd parties that the audience IS there.

@Kantor
I think that pretty much proves point 1.



                            

why should you care about the industry? you care about games coming to your precious wii, stop being such a hypocrite, buy an HD console if you want those games



"why should you care about the industry? you care about games coming to your precious wii, stop being such a hypocrite, buy an HD console if you want those games"

How about it's principle, not whether we want them for ourselves.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

The problem with the wii games is that they generally cannot hold as much data/ cannot run the same level of graphics and gameplay depth that the others can. (When I say gameplay depth, I mean, simultaneous gameplay, like an RTS computing thousands of different things in real time, not how good the gameplay is)
Therefore, when making a wii game, the gameplay has to be that much better, and use less tools with which to run it. Fewer environments, smaller levels, lighter graphics+details. The dev has to be much more clever to make it seem like the player is getting the same thing. For instance in SMG, the planets are all relatively small and everything is on a timer or patterned. This means that the system only has to render a small part of the environment at any one time, and even cleverly hide a loading period when shooting to other planets.
It's the same with all the wii games, and DS games for that matter. It's hides in "style" or "scope" or "rails".

Additionally, most of the core audience enjoys games with lots of replayability and addictiveness. Minigames and challenges to improve scores are littered among the wii titles.

Now, taking into account the increased cleverness needed, and increased gameplay replayability, you're looking at a couple things. (Note that "-" signs do not mean bad, they mean standard)
+replayability +cleverness (pretty much only nintendo)
+replayability -cleverness Minigames
-replayability +cleverness ex: Madworld, the Conduit
-replayabliity - cleverness (this one entails a normal core ps360/PC game)* impossible due to system constraints.

Note about the above: I'm not saying anything above is fact. I'm trying to describe how different it is for successful games on the wii. In order to make comparable games, you need to tone down the scope and inject addictive qualities. The simplest addictive quality is score, the second, is collecting. However, the kind of games that are popular on pc/ps360, don't involve score for the most part, and the ones that use collecting, use it in such a fashion that it would not be possible on the wii. There are just too many varied things to collect/unlock. Additionally, when you want to improve on one of these things, something else has to take a hit. And that's where the cleverness comes in, and why cleverness is the most crucial aspect of this whole thing.

It costs a lot of money to make a clever game. And that is why you don't see many of them.



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The Wii is NOT the place for big budget AAA titles with large production value and the top of the line graphics.  Its strength are games with fun and innovative controls that do something new.  The Wii games need to play to that.



gansito said:
why should you care about the industry? you care about games coming to your precious wii, stop being such a hypocrite, buy an HD console if you want those games

Did you even read?

The problem is not the Wii, the problem is the overall "Industry" mentality, what i want is not HD Console kind of games, i want NES and SNES kind of quality games, each of them offering something new, i dont want the "Industry" to keep releasing lame "casual" games on the Wii, but i dont want another MOAR graphics kind of shooter either, i want to developers to stop exploring the same genres over and over again, soon we are going to get Zangeki no Reginleiv and Xenoblade, both game look really promising and different, thats what i want to see when i hear of a new game, and as far as i know, the HD support is just the same as the Wii, but instead of getting lots of same looking casual games, they get same looking same looking hardcore games, Bravo! just what i need

 

Agreed on the quality control issue,  the Wii really suffers from not so good games all the time



Nintendo is the best videogames company ever!

Companies that abandon my Wii get no money from me on my ps3 either!



richardhutnik said:

The Wii is NOT the place for big budget AAA titles with large production value and the top of the line graphics.  Its strength are games with fun and innovative controls that do something new.  The Wii games need to play to that.

Precisely, when i said AAA i didnt mean the big budget kind of treatment, i mean the small team, big effort, lots of polish Nintendo uses to give to their games



Nintendo is the best videogames company ever!

I think Pachter may be right about this one. I think he stated the average sale price for 3rd party games were quite poor which explains why Microsofts Alan Greenburg has a big circle jerk with the NPD document as porn every month with the gaming media about overall $ value of third party purchases.

The Wii would have been better off had the performance been better in terms of third party support but worse for 1st party support. Things would not have been better overall with more powerful hardware because the only reason why Nintendo was able to hit the ground running was the fact the hardware was second nature to them and they could repurpose Gamecube engines/concepts and games in development.