By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - "Microsofts creative destruction" + Microsofts response.

richardhutnik said:
By the way, regarding Apple, if people think Microsoft is bad, imagine a world where Apple was the top dog the way Microsoft is. You wouldn't have multiple hardware manufacturers making PCs. You would end up with just one, and that is Apple. It would be an even worse Monopolistic state than we have now with Microsoft.

Indeed, Apple would make an even worse monopolist. That isn't in antithesis with them being better than MS - as far as innovation in tech world is the subject - as a competitor among peers.

We'll see how they fare in the smartphone market where they're now estabilished as the incumbent, against the up-and-coming competition of Android devices.

My suspicion is that they will not rest on their laurels, and will keep materializing innovations. It seems more like a corporate culture / mission statement thing that a marketshare one, and Jobs keeps the helm very firmly.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

Around the Network

A few things. Didnt M$ have the first tablet computer? They unveiled their first. To alot of praise to. Windows 7 is considered by many already the best operating system out there. And Natal looks to change the way we game. Seems a sour article to me.



DM235 said:
Twistedpixel said:

Another point worth addressing is Dick’s assertion that Xbox is “at best an equal contender in the game console business.” Fact is, Xbox 360 was the first high-definition console. It was the first to digitally deliver games, music, TV shows and movies in 1080p high definition. The first to bring Facebook and Twitter to the living room. And with Project Natal for Xbox 360 launching this year, it will be the first to deliver controller-free experiences that anyone can enjoy—a magical experience for everyone that Popular Science, Popular Mechanics, and Time magazine each named one of the top inventions of 2009.

 

Some minor errors in the statement above.  Marvel: Ultimate Alliance was 1920x1080 on the PS3 (released on Nov 17, 2006), while the XBox 360's first 1920x1080 game was NBA Street Home Court (released February 19, 2007).  So even though 1080p was available on the 360 in October 2006, about one month before the PS3, this resolution was only available by upscaling current games. 

People have had PCs hooked up to their living room TVs before 2006, and even the PS3 with its internet browser brought Twitter and Facebook to the living room before the 360.

PS2's EyeToy had controller free gaming in 2003, 7 years before Natal.

You mistake the comment. Notice he says it's the first to 'Digitally' deliver games, music, TV shows AND movies in 1080p. 360 was first to do 1080p for all of these together. So no errors.

Internet browser for PS3 is nothing like Facebook for 360. 360 Facebook works perfectly with a controller. PS3 facebook is like combing your hair with a lawnmower.

Eyetoy is not controller free entertainment. If it was the wand would not exist. Eyetoy cannot be used for realtime movement in 3d. It's all predetermined paths with Eyetoy. It's clever but flawed tech for stuff that Natal is able to do. So yes Natal is TRUE controller free gaming. 



Very interesting. I think the rebuttal from the current MS guy sucked.

It's now revealed that MS suffers from the same internal battles that Sony are famous for.

It just sux that MS has suffocated so much innovation that actually came from within the company.



Slimebeast said:

Very interesting. I think the rebuttal from the current MS guy sucked.

It's now revealed that MS suffers from the same internal battles that Sony are famous for.

It just sux that MS has suffocated so much innovation that actually came from within the company.

Internal battles in MS have been well known before this.



Around the Network
bobobologna said:
DirtyP2002 said:
WereKitten said:

The gist of the interview was not about gaining or keeping marketshare, nor about just how financially successful their products are. It was about being creative and spearheading innovation.

(Innovation is not necessarily revolutionary. Sometimes it just means doing less, doing it better, packaging it well. See Google versus previous search engines, or Apple with iPod and iPhone.)

Their browser is still the most used browser in the world. Its usage share keeps declining, though, and every innovation in the browser world (tabs, heavy leverage of extensions, multi-process architecture, fast Javascript VMs enabling complex web apps, adoption of emerging standards) came from the competition.

Their OS is still the most used desktop OS in the world, and yet when I used Vista and Windows 7 I found they have been following where Apple (and Next) opened new paths in UI (composite manager display, dock, etc). As OSs become more and more of a commodity on different devices they'll have to rely on unique benefits if they want to keep asking for a premium price, though.

Do we want to talk about Bing vs Google, .Net vs Java, Azure vs Google Docs, Zune vs iPod/iPad, or WinMobile 7 vs iPhone OS-X/Android?

Strictly from a creative standpoint the sensation is that they are reluctant or unable to push the envelope in a commercially viable way, and too often they just follow suit despite the incredible resources they can muster.

They have great R&D projects - I read about them all the time - but it seems like they're smothered by the bulk of the company. Compare this with, say, Apple where you know they're constantly trying to finalize their research project into viable, attractive products.


That is where I disagree. You can't expect MS to push this industry alone. This looks like you blame MS for the innovations others made. This is a huge industry and everybody contributes. Do you expect MS to be the number one in every freaking segment in this industry?

I think you are getting a bit too defensive about Microsoft.  I think the main argument is that Microsoft isn't fostering an environment where innovative ideas can thrive, not that they should be front runners in everything they do.

Cleartype taking 10 years to get out?  Doing a horrible job with making their apps compatible with tablets (and now failing to do the same for capactive touchscreens based on finger inputs)?

Sony get's blasted all the time for being a disconnected company, and I agree with those criticisms.  Their divisions have largely in the past been completely ignorant of each other instead of working together.  Now we are hearing that different parts of Microsoft are going so far as to sabotage each other.  It's ridiculous if true.


It is about healthy growth. Sustainable growth is more important than anything else. Look, Apple bet their company on touchscreens and portable devices, imagine how bad Apple would look right now if the portable devices would have failed. Apple is bigger than ever before, because their bet was paying off.

It is very hard to be on every possible market. MS still has the OS and office software that makes a lot of money, but they try to get on other markets as well. Look at the Xbox 360 and the videogame industry. MS brought some innovations to this industry like Xbox Live, Video on Demand on a console, Xbox Live Arcade and digital distribution of games, HDD drives, Sky / Canal+, Netflix and now Project Natal. It really takes a lot of effort to push innovations and to market them, becuase at the end of the day, they want to make money with it. It took MS almost 10 years, 5 billion USD and thousands of hours to establish the Xbox brand.

I think MS has a very "pro innovation culture" in their company. Look at the MS courier for example. They had this idea and created something awesome IMO, now it would take again billions of USD and years of time to establish this and get this on the market. Of course you have to find partners that develop software for this and you have to find distribution partners as well.

Now you have to do this again with the MS surface... Don't get me wrong, I would love to see MS making the courier affordable for everyone. I would get it day one, but it is not that simple. The idea / innovation is just one thing, to get it out at the right time is not easy. That is why I don't blame them.

For those of you who don't know surface:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0

and MS courier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

 



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

JaggedSac said:
Slimebeast said:

Very interesting. I think the rebuttal from the current MS guy sucked.

It's now revealed that MS suffers from the same internal battles that Sony are famous for.

It just sux that MS has suffocated so much innovation that actually came from within the company.

Internal battles in MS have been well known before this.

Yeah, but I didn't know it was almost as bad as at Sony.



DirtyP2002 said:
bobobologna said:
DirtyP2002 said:
WereKitten said:

The gist of the interview was not about gaining or keeping marketshare, nor about just how financially successful their products are. It was about being creative and spearheading innovation.

(Innovation is not necessarily revolutionary. Sometimes it just means doing less, doing it better, packaging it well. See Google versus previous search engines, or Apple with iPod and iPhone.)

Their browser is still the most used browser in the world. Its usage share keeps declining, though, and every innovation in the browser world (tabs, heavy leverage of extensions, multi-process architecture, fast Javascript VMs enabling complex web apps, adoption of emerging standards) came from the competition.

Their OS is still the most used desktop OS in the world, and yet when I used Vista and Windows 7 I found they have been following where Apple (and Next) opened new paths in UI (composite manager display, dock, etc). As OSs become more and more of a commodity on different devices they'll have to rely on unique benefits if they want to keep asking for a premium price, though.

Do we want to talk about Bing vs Google, .Net vs Java, Azure vs Google Docs, Zune vs iPod/iPad, or WinMobile 7 vs iPhone OS-X/Android?

Strictly from a creative standpoint the sensation is that they are reluctant or unable to push the envelope in a commercially viable way, and too often they just follow suit despite the incredible resources they can muster.

They have great R&D projects - I read about them all the time - but it seems like they're smothered by the bulk of the company. Compare this with, say, Apple where you know they're constantly trying to finalize their research project into viable, attractive products.


That is where I disagree. You can't expect MS to push this industry alone. This looks like you blame MS for the innovations others made. This is a huge industry and everybody contributes. Do you expect MS to be the number one in every freaking segment in this industry?

I think you are getting a bit too defensive about Microsoft.  I think the main argument is that Microsoft isn't fostering an environment where innovative ideas can thrive, not that they should be front runners in everything they do.

Cleartype taking 10 years to get out?  Doing a horrible job with making their apps compatible with tablets (and now failing to do the same for capactive touchscreens based on finger inputs)?

Sony get's blasted all the time for being a disconnected company, and I agree with those criticisms.  Their divisions have largely in the past been completely ignorant of each other instead of working together.  Now we are hearing that different parts of Microsoft are going so far as to sabotage each other.  It's ridiculous if true.


It is about healthy growth. Sustainable growth is more important than anything else. Look, Apple bet their company on touchscreens and portable devices, imagine how bad Apple would look right now if the portable devices would have failed. Apple is bigger than ever before, because their bet was paying off.

It is very hard to be on every possible market. MS still has the OS and office software that makes a lot of money, but they try to get on other markets as well. Look at the Xbox 360 and the videogame industry. MS brought some innovations to this industry like Xbox Live, Video on Demand on a console, Xbox Live Arcade and digital distribution of games, HDD drives, Sky / Canal+, Netflix and now Project Natal. It really takes a lot of effort to push innovations and to market them, becuase at the end of the day, they want to make money with it. It took MS almost 10 years, 5 billion USD and thousands of hours to establish the Xbox brand.

I think MS has a very "pro innovation culture" in their company. Look at the MS courier for example. They had this idea and created something awesome IMO, now it would take again billions of USD and years of time to establish this and get this on the market. Of course you have to find partners that develop software for this and you have to find distribution partners as well.

Now you have to do this again with the MS surface... Don't get me wrong, I would love to see MS making the courier affordable for everyone. I would get it day one, but it is not that simple. The idea / innovation is just one thing, to get it out at the right time is not easy. That is why I don't blame them.

For those of you who don't know surface:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0

and MS courier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

 

I do blame them.  You completely and conveniently ignored the articles posting about ClearType.  And tablet PC inputs for Microsoft Office.  Where the hell is Windows Mobile 7?  Why does Windows Mobile 6.5 suck ass with finger inputs when Google and Apple have already put out great interfaces for mobile phones?

It's cool that Microsoft is dreaming about the Courier and Surface.  I dream about fusion power someday.  Why isn't Microsoft doing things it can and should be doing?

The article clearly specifies examples where different divisions of the company were SABOTAGING each other.  I don't know how anyone could defend that.



bobobologna said:
DirtyP2002 said:
bobobologna said:
DirtyP2002 said:
WereKitten said:

The gist of the interview was not about gaining or keeping marketshare, nor about just how financially successful their products are. It was about being creative and spearheading innovation.

(Innovation is not necessarily revolutionary. Sometimes it just means doing less, doing it better, packaging it well. See Google versus previous search engines, or Apple with iPod and iPhone.)

Their browser is still the most used browser in the world. Its usage share keeps declining, though, and every innovation in the browser world (tabs, heavy leverage of extensions, multi-process architecture, fast Javascript VMs enabling complex web apps, adoption of emerging standards) came from the competition.

Their OS is still the most used desktop OS in the world, and yet when I used Vista and Windows 7 I found they have been following where Apple (and Next) opened new paths in UI (composite manager display, dock, etc). As OSs become more and more of a commodity on different devices they'll have to rely on unique benefits if they want to keep asking for a premium price, though.

Do we want to talk about Bing vs Google, .Net vs Java, Azure vs Google Docs, Zune vs iPod/iPad, or WinMobile 7 vs iPhone OS-X/Android?

Strictly from a creative standpoint the sensation is that they are reluctant or unable to push the envelope in a commercially viable way, and too often they just follow suit despite the incredible resources they can muster.

They have great R&D projects - I read about them all the time - but it seems like they're smothered by the bulk of the company. Compare this with, say, Apple where you know they're constantly trying to finalize their research project into viable, attractive products.


That is where I disagree. You can't expect MS to push this industry alone. This looks like you blame MS for the innovations others made. This is a huge industry and everybody contributes. Do you expect MS to be the number one in every freaking segment in this industry?

I think you are getting a bit too defensive about Microsoft.  I think the main argument is that Microsoft isn't fostering an environment where innovative ideas can thrive, not that they should be front runners in everything they do.

Cleartype taking 10 years to get out?  Doing a horrible job with making their apps compatible with tablets (and now failing to do the same for capactive touchscreens based on finger inputs)?

Sony get's blasted all the time for being a disconnected company, and I agree with those criticisms.  Their divisions have largely in the past been completely ignorant of each other instead of working together.  Now we are hearing that different parts of Microsoft are going so far as to sabotage each other.  It's ridiculous if true.


It is about healthy growth. Sustainable growth is more important than anything else. Look, Apple bet their company on touchscreens and portable devices, imagine how bad Apple would look right now if the portable devices would have failed. Apple is bigger than ever before, because their bet was paying off.

It is very hard to be on every possible market. MS still has the OS and office software that makes a lot of money, but they try to get on other markets as well. Look at the Xbox 360 and the videogame industry. MS brought some innovations to this industry like Xbox Live, Video on Demand on a console, Xbox Live Arcade and digital distribution of games, HDD drives, Sky / Canal+, Netflix and now Project Natal. It really takes a lot of effort to push innovations and to market them, becuase at the end of the day, they want to make money with it. It took MS almost 10 years, 5 billion USD and thousands of hours to establish the Xbox brand.

I think MS has a very "pro innovation culture" in their company. Look at the MS courier for example. They had this idea and created something awesome IMO, now it would take again billions of USD and years of time to establish this and get this on the market. Of course you have to find partners that develop software for this and you have to find distribution partners as well.

Now you have to do this again with the MS surface... Don't get me wrong, I would love to see MS making the courier affordable for everyone. I would get it day one, but it is not that simple. The idea / innovation is just one thing, to get it out at the right time is not easy. That is why I don't blame them.

For those of you who don't know surface:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0

and MS courier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

 

I do blame them.  You completely and conveniently ignored the articles posting about ClearType. MS talked about this in their response. And tablet PC inputs for Microsoft Office.  Where the hell is Windows Mobile 7?  Why does Windows Mobile 6.5 suck ass with finger inputs when Google and Apple have already put out great interfaces for mobile phones? probably like 3 weeks away.

It's cool that Microsoft is dreaming about the Courier and Surface.  I dream about fusion power someday.  Why isn't Microsoft doing things it can and should be doing? did you read my post? It takes time, money and manpower to do this. Why should they put some things on a market when the market is not ready for this. Surface is great, but do you think it will make money? probably not. People are praising Apple for their "innovations", but Apple has a very limited roster of products on the market. ipod, iphone, iPod, MacBook and iTunes (probably some more but not that much) MS would need to hire at least 2000 new highly skilled employees for the courier or the surface. The Xbox division is still hiring to get this one piece of hardware running and secure the software for this.

The article clearly specifies examples where different divisions of the company were SABOTAGING each other.  I don't know how anyone could defend that.

Do you really think this is true as bad as this guy wants us to look at it? Why should they do this? Just for fun? doubt it. They probably had their reasons back then. MS won't cut any innovations without any reason. No company would do this.

 



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

I hate when people talk about Bill Gates being a philanthropist when what he's using a lot of that money for is to teach people how to use MS products. Breeding loyal customers isn't charitable even if you can convince the government not to tax you for it. I almost couldn't finish after that.



You do not have the right to never be offended.